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The Powers That Be want it to be a race war. Because if it’s a race war, they avoid the class war.

Remember the French Revolution :


 
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Lenin has never been deployed more appropriately than in that bubbly submerged state. Out of sight, out of mind - a fine option.
 
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... Despite a growing police budgets, crime has increased....
Which is why people are calling for defunding of police forces.

In Canada the police have been killing people on whom they’ve been asked to do “wellness checks”.

Serve and protect is way down the list of priorities. De-escalation is way down the list of priorities. Respect is way down the list of priorities. So why wouldn’t people demand that 25 million dollars be taken from policing budgets and transferred to mental health services where the person at risk will be helped instead of killed?

Policing is necessary but it has lost its way and raisin d’etre. Wh is it the default position for police to handle-cuff everybody. How is that respect? Video shows that it seems It’s so they can abuse people more easily. Or why do they have to be hand-cuffed with their hands behind as the default position? Old guys like me are brittle and breakable. We don’t tolerate very well being smacked to the pavement face down? If police do not want to be seen as the enemy, they need to stop acting like the enemy. And they make their rational brothers and sisters in the police force look REALLY bad.
 

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Here in the States it’s only the cities that have Police Departments once you leave the city limits you are under the jurisdiction of the County/Parish Sheriff Department. Living in the cites is a lot different than living in the burbs or country. It seems there are whole lot more bars/alcohol and drugs in the cities.

We need to find numbers for both but they say for some reason the numbers aren’t kept track of .

 

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The police shooting statistic adjusted for population % is:
30 deaths per million for blacks/African Americans
12 per million for whites.

Justifying that because somebody somewhere else did or didn’t do something doesn’t work.

Most violence against women/children is done by men, that doesn’t make it OK to shoot/suffocate/kill a completely different man somewhere else. who isn’t doing it.
Both things can be bad. one doesn’t negate the other.
 

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If the stats were enough on their own when they supported a standpoint, how come they don’t stand on their own when it turns out they actually disprove that point - and suddenly we need to look at the detail and maybe find a way around them?

As it happens it’s even worse if you only count unarmed victims. Historically it’s a 6:1 ratio of unarmed black:white victims. That clearly says something isn’t working out.
I don’t know the 2019 figure but I doubt it has suddenly achieved parity.

So the stat doesn’t show media hype, it shows there is an issue. It is quite right that is was brought up and we should base our judgement on it rather than any media/political hype or prejudgement or personal bias.
 

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Bluebottle,

Let’s find the number of civilian deaths of blacks killed by black civilians and then compare that number killed by officers.

I think that was the point Dan711 was making.
 

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It’s irrelevant.

Murderers who aren’t police should be dealt with, everybody knows this, colour is irrelevant to that.

If that does happen there is still a proportional discrepancy in police treatment of an ethinic group.
If that doesn’t happen there is still a proportional discrepancy in police treatment of an ethinic group.

Part of the reason people are upset is the perception that less effort is put into solving all crimes committed against blacks, not just by police. Listen to the complaints.

Singling out one issue is a way for opponents to diminish the issues raised.
 

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Well Dan711, your suggestion to eliminate police departments is not in discussion. But they are definitely not the suitable public agency for doing wellness checks or mental health situations. If you relieve their budget of 50 million bucks and Give thAt money to mental health intervention professionals with the proper training, than it would be a win/win/win situation: the cops would have more time under less stress to serve and protect, The community wouldn’t have to be scared to calll the cops for help on theses issues and the formerly alive citizens could get the help that they and theIr families were asking for.
 

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Bluebottle,

Let’s find the number of civilian deaths of blacks killed by black civilians and then compare that number killed by officers.

I think that was the point Dan711 was making.
By this logic you can minimize deaths from ANY cause by just finding something that causes more deaths.
 

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.

Let me first say we all believe Black Lives Matter .

Now as a group of of smart guys sitting around a table let’s fix this :

Listing and prioritizing the leading causes of unnatural deaths to Blacks would be helpful right ?

So let us put this small handful in order and as we discover the ones I overlooked we will slide them in.

How many Blacks have been killed by Inanimate Bronze Statues ?

How many have been killed by pancake packaging ?

How many will die from not requiring Blacks to Social Distance and Wear Masks ?

How many deaths of Blacks have happened in Peaceful Riots ?

How many Deaths during Violent Protest with Looting and Arson ?

How many are killed by being involved in a Crime ?

How many of those have been killed by the Police ? Let that number be broken into the race of the Cop that lead to the Blacks Death.

How many have died by the hand of another Black ?

How many have died at Abortion Clinics ?

How many deaths can be attributed to not having a father figure in the home ?

How many have died due to having to much free time and no job opportunity ?

Bluebottle I think you would follow this method in a scientific solution to a problem right ?
 
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I'm not sure we all agree on that first statement, or at least that they matter more than preserving order.

As to the rest of it? The statues and product branding are symbols that say those lives don't matter.
 

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...Bluebottle I think you would follow this method in a scientific solution to a problem right ?
No

If a driver on their phone kills a motorcyclist you don’t say:

”let’s count up all the other motorcycle accidents and show that his family aren’t really angry or they’d be campaigning about diesel spills, speeding and crossing give-ways.
Most of them ride too fast you know. Nothing needs to be done about the phones”


Anybody saying that would be displaying a bias against the rider purely because they were a motorcyclist.

It’s just an excuse to mention that “motorcyclists do bad things” badly covered up

Same with race
 

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Bluebottle,

Please restate the topic we are discussing.

Please tell us what you think would be the proper course of action for us to follow ?






 

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I'm not sure we all agree on that first statement, or at least that they matter more than preserving order.

As to the rest of it? The statues and product branding are symbols that say those lives don't matter.
Well it’s not politically correct but that never bothers me
I will say ...All Lives Matter

As to the Pan Cake Packaging :





I think this thread clearly shows that I’m not sentimental about war statues ...but as Dave_J stated we should not allow the vandalization of them.

If the statues are such a problem why didn’t the Obama’s address it during their eight years ? Remember when Michelle had to lay in bed and look up at the ceiling at the White House ?

Do we need to change the color of the White House ...I say paint it Blood Red .

The Toppling of Statues ...Can be made into Iconic Photos to Move the Mind of the Masses :

“The 2004 documentary film “Control Room” featured Al Jazeera journalists who argued that the toppling of Saddam’s statue was merely “a show . . . a very clever idea,” and that Iraqis had been brought to the square like actors delivered to the stage. Skeptics have also questioned whether the crowd was as large or as representative of popular sentiment as U.S. officials suggested. Might it have been just a small group of Iraqis whose numbers and enthusiasm were exaggerated by the cameras? Did the media, which had, with few exceptions, accepted the Bush Administration’s prewar claims about weapons of mass destruction, err again by portraying a pseudo-event as real? And were lives lost as a result of this error?”
 

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If the statues are such a problem why didn’t the Obama’s address it during their eight years ?
Why Obama?
Why not mention Bush or Ford? Is it because Obama is black and, you know, all black people think alike?
Would such a provocative move have been wise in his position?
Or was his judgement so perfect that anything he didn’t do isn’t worth doing?

’cos if it’s the first, that’s where the whole problem is.

PS. Have a look at who owns the statues and the limitations on presidential mandate.
 

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Why Obama?
Why not mention Bush or Ford? Is it because Obama is black and, you know, all black people think alike?
Would such a provocative move have been wise in his position?
Or was his judgement so perfect that anything he didn’t do isn’t worth doing?

’cos if it’s the first, that’s where the whole problem is.

PS. Have a look at who owns the statues and the limitations on presidential mandate.
Bluebottle what point are we arguing ?
You know I don’t mind playing ball with you but what ball are we playing ?

George Floyd, Black Lives Matter, Police Brutality towards Blacks, Confederate Statues, or Racism in General ?

Please school us in the history of Racism at the height of the British Empire ?

And your opinion of racism in the remnant of the British Empire now ?

And how your country overcame Racism ?

Please tell me what we are debating again ?

I feel like a little foolish David fighting a Mental Giant
but I don’t know what rock to sling....😁
 

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Same way with Covid-19 a lot of innocent people have had their life’s shattered or destroyed due to the Political Grand Standing .
 

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I think we covered the 'trash neighborhoods' thing a while back.
Read this post (#67 in this thread).

In short, the vandalism and theft happened early on, and some media exaggerated how long it went on and how severe it was.

And much of the early vandalism and theft was by people taking advantage of the disruption caused by the protests or wanting to provoke police retaliation against the protestors.
 
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