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Discussion Starter #1
I have already talked to my dealership -I will be buying either a Suzuki Burgman 400 or the SV650 in a few weeks. I have the Burman 650 K9 and going to keep it. The Burgman 400 on the showroom floor is a 2018 model.

I really like the way the Burgman 400 sits compared to the SV650 -which IMHO sits better than my present B650. That is also a reason why I would favor the Burgman 400 over the SV650 as L.A.(Los Angeles) traffic is so bad that splitting lanes on my B650 is somewhat impractical. I sold my Goldwing several month ago -totally impractical for me to use as a commuter bike although great for touring.

**Questions about the Burgman 400 (2018).
1) Is the stock windscreen effective to keep the wind off the chest and face for someone 5'7"? If not, what windscreen to you suggest?

2) What's the top cruising speed for the B400? (eg. I previously had the Suzuki M50 [800cc] which vibrated so bad at 70-75mph, I had to sell it! Worst touring bike. While my B650 can cruise at 85-90mph all day and I am totally comfortable)

3) Are there any special quirks on the B400 I need to be aware, so I don't mistake the 'quirks' as a manufacturing defect?

**Any feedback to the above questions would be greatly appreciated:)(y)

----What I already found on the Burgman 400 Forum and going to the dealership ----
Burgman 400 is already a proven motorcycle/scooter
  • I already know that some members of this forum who have B400s have logged over 100,000+ mile so the B400 can go the distance.
  • Owners of the B400 don't have to worry about the CVT problems of the B650.
  • B400 -Insurance is cheaper and more MPG than my B650 or the SV650.
  • SV650 has a strange seating position. Not as comfortable as the B650, Honda Rebel 500, Harley Iron 883. For personal reasons, I am not looking at these motorcycles to be my second motorcycle even though I do like the seating position.
  • The B400 seating feels even more comfortable than my B650.
 

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Screens are a very subjective thing. What some can't tolerate, others have no complaints. You will have to try the OEM for yourself, you may decide it's perfectly fine. If not, most tend to gravitate to the Givi (either the two-piece Airflow or single screen) or Clearview. I'm referring to the earlier version, so it depends on availability for the new model of course.

The earlier model top speed is around 90 to 100 indicated. From what I understand the new one is as good or better. Speedo reads around 8% optimistic.

Can't think of too many quirks. The pre-18 models sometimes have a bit of clutch "judder" on take off. Helped by more throttle at launch, sanding the clutch pads, or aftermarket clutch. Not sure if a new one will develop this.

If you want to lower highway cruising RPM, you can install Dr. Pulley slider weights in the variator, but won't increase too speed.
 

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Have had my '18 400 for nearly 16 months now, the screen is good for someone of our height but does cause buffeting around 65 - 70 mph, changed mine for the Givi Airflow screen (which is height adjustable) and find it excellent.
I tend to use 75 MPH as the max cruising speed - it will make about 90MPH but, realistically, it is a 400cc engine and mechanically sympathy for me keeps me off the maximum speed, plus where I live the roads don't often offer the space to go that fast.
The seat is good and no complaints from wife (which makes a change), we added a Givi carrier and top box so storage and carrying capacity is good. Had mine fitted with the factory heated grips which are great.
In all no complaints so far after nearly 3K miles.
 

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Regarding top speed, you have to keep in mind the 90-100 I mentioned is flat out on a good day. I've seen 100 indicated...though that was downhill with a tailwind. All bikes are a little different, some report less and some more. Either way, you're not going to just zoom up to 90 for a quick pass. Similar to JC, I use about 80 as a top practical speed.

Also, if you run up around 90 or above you start getting into the red zone of the tach with stock rollers, wouldn't want to do that all day. As I mentioned you can reduce this with slider weights.
 

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There is "top speed" and "top speed while commuting in LA." Not the same thing.

I lane split all the time on the 4-oh-5; not sure what my top speed is, only that it's a hell of a lot faster than the cages around me. (I do move over for sport bikes, though). The 400 is ideal for this purpose.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
The earlier model top speed is around 90 to 100 indicated. From what I understand the new one is as good or better. Speedo reads around 8% optimistic.
Amazing that a 400cc thumper can go this fast :)

Can't think of too many quirks. The pre-18 models sometimes have a bit of clutch "judder" on take off. Helped by more throttle at launch, sanding the clutch pads, or aftermarket clutch. Not sure if a new one will develop this.
This means that 2018 Burgman 400s don't have this clutch "judder" on take off? I used to get this on my 50cc Metropolitan Honda scooters.
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I tend to use 75 MPH as the max cruising speed - it will make about 90MPH but, realistically, it is a 400cc engine and mechanically sympathy for me keeps me off the maximum speed, plus where I live the roads don't often offer the space to go that fast.
That is a faster cruising speed than my former Suzuki M50(800cc) which had terrible vibration at 70+mph.[/QUOTE]

around 90 or above you start getting into the red zone of the tach with stock rollers, wouldn't want to do that all day.
I also had a Honda Helix that I took from L.A. to Phoenix at WOT all the way. It had about 13,000 miles, but when I returned it had 15,000+ miles and the stock roller froze up on me on the 4-oh-5. I was lucky I could ride it enough to get it home and to the motorcycle shop.[/QUOTE]

I lane split all the time on the 4-oh-5; not sure what my top speed
That is one of my main interest in the Burgman 400(B400), my Goldwing 1800 was a 'pig' so I sold it last year. I split lanes with the B650 and with the large mirrors, I can split lanes -but it is not as comfortable.

It is definitely more challenging riding a small displacement bike for touring. As a challenge I took my Honda Rebel 250 on many road trips through Nevada and Arizona at WOT all day long. The only problem, every 500 miles I had to change the oil as shifting became for difficult. The Suzuki dealership said I could cruise all day at 80 mph. As stated, I would definitely change out the belt and roller bearing every 15,000 miles. Thank you very much for your feedback :) I am going to the Suzuki dealership again tomorrow. I love the way the B400 sits and 90+% will be commuting with some touring duty.
Below is my Rebel 250 as I went from L.A. to Phoenix to Sedona. Then came back through San Diego to Los Angeles all WOT. Cruising speed at 70 mph, 75-80 mph going downhill. Going uphill on the highways at WOT, my 250 would slow down to 35-40 mph. The B650 could go 80+mph all day uphill or downhill. In L.A. traffic, my B650 is heavier than my former BMW R1200R and pushing old 'Lardy' with the present CVT setup is definitely not easy as posted by other members including me. I had to two Rebel 250s as I liked the seating position! Both times I was hit -once in a parking lot, the other waiting at a stoplight.
Thank you again for your insight as the B400 is definitely one of my choices!

r5081.jpg
 

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"This means that 2018 Burgman 400s don't have this clutch "judder" on take off?"

I think it's just hit and miss, some get it and some dont. As far as I know the CVT in both generations is the same.

EDIT: Just checked on Partzilla and the clutch shoe assembly and the clutch bell do have slightly different part numbers for the new model, so there must have been some change. My 2011 would sometimes judder, and would usually grab and jerk when taking off (no comments from the peanut gallery). It varied depending on the throttle application. Replaced with Dr. Pulley HiT clutch and now it's smooth as glass.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
"This means that 2018 Burgman 400s don't have this clutch "judder" on take off?"

EDIT: Just checked on Partzilla and the clutch shoe assembly and the clutch bell do have slightly different part numbers for the new model, so there must have been some change. My 2011 would sometimes judder, and would usually grab and jerk when taking off (no comments from the peanut gallery). It varied depending on the throttle application. Replaced with Dr. Pulley HiT clutch and now it's smooth as glass.
Thank you for the EDIT information on the B400! I know when some of the CVT belts get hot the "Judder" starts. It's not something I really like. Much like the old days when a motorcycle clutch got hot, the motorcycle would 'inch' forward even when the clutch was fully pulled in. Once I tightened the clutch cable, no problems until the engine cooled down -then I had to loosen the clutch cable . Hopefully the new clutch shoe assembly and the clutch bell will suffice. -not something I'm fond of in stop-and-go traffic. The B650 has the strange gear drive so no shudder anywhere even when hot. With almost 33k miles on old 'Lardy' -if anything goes wrong with the CVT assembly, I'm selling the bike or parting it out.
 

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My clutch judder was totally un acceptable until I read the proper way to maintain it from a member on here. Now, a couple hours, once a year as preventive maintenance, and I haven't had a problem in years.
Top 'cruising speed' is my only issue right now, as it seems to be a bit high on the RPMs, but with 18,000 miles on I'm sure a new belt and rollers would do it wonders. Little at a time that stuff wears out, and a guy doesn't really notice it until new parts are installed. Again, just a wear item.
As far as a windshield, you'll be the first to know. Good chance you'll be at the parts counter or ordering off the computer the next day. I love my Givi, but I'll bet money I lost 4-6 mpg and over 5 mph when I put it on. But in my eyes, well worth it.
Enjoy your scoot (which you probably already bought) they're like a silent, electric like, buttery smooth, easy to use, comfortable cruiser.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
My clutch judder was totally unacceptable until I read the proper way to maintain it from a member on here. Now, a couple hours, once a year as preventive maintenance, and I haven't had a problem in years.
What did you do to 😫FIX THE CLUTCH JUDDER😫? I had serious CLUTCH JUDDER on my former Reflex 250 as well as rattling plastic tupperware😟

I did order the B400 today(waiting for other parts to come in before I bring it home). It was a choice between the SV650 and the B400. My main purpose why I chose the B400 is that my primary reason was to get a commuter bike. For Stop & Go traffic, the B400 felt much more comfortable. Interesting as I looked at the Harley 883 Iron, Honda 750 Shadow Aero. I was told that the Harley 883 could cruise at 80mph, but even at this speed it was not good for the bike. I would choose the Harley 883 or Honda 750 Shadow over the SV650 only because the seating position is very comfortable -but the service department was not to my expectations. I recently got rid of my Honda Goldwing F6B -too clumsy for city commuting. I could split lanes on my former Goldwing 1800, but it was not comfortable for L.A. traffic. Also to mention that I still have my B650 which could cruise at an indicated 80-95mph all day long.

I find it interesting that people on this forum cruise on their B400 at an indicated 80+mph. My former Suzuki M50(800cc), which was one of the WORST touring bike I ever owned vibrated so bad at 70mph and above, worse than the Harley 883 and Honda 750 Shadow at highway speeds.

As far as a windshield, you'll be the first to know. Good chance you'll be at the parts counter or ordering off the computer the next day. I love my Givi, but I'll bet money I lost 4-6 mpg and over 5 mph when I put it on. But in my eyes, well worth it.Enjoy your scoot (which you probably already bought) they're like a silent, electric like, buttery smooth, easy to use, comfortable cruiser.
I did order an after market Givi Windscreen and Top Box. After it is installed, then I'll bring the 'Baby Burg' home. If the B400 is as smooth as the B650, I'll be happy😊!
 

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Discussion Starter #11
These are the main links to the CLUTCH JUDDER. I have never ridden the B400, but having many motorcycles and scooters in the past -I am familiar with the 'CLUTCH JUDDER' on other scooters that I have owned. Another reason why I was leaning toward a regular motorcycle rather than another scooter[B400]. The big concern about the B650 is the CVT transmission; however, thus far with over 33,000 miles on my B650 -the B650 and CVT assembly has never left me stranded.
The CLUTCH JUDDER, just makes any scooter with a CVT belt seem like a "Cheap Piece of Trash". If this does happen to my B400, I'll be selling it before I even break it in:mad:(n). I done this before on my several Honda Reflex 250. Sad that even the Honda Metropolitan 50cc had the 'Clutch Judder'. I may be in "scooter territory" that I should have avoided.
It will be very sad if the B400 has the CLUTCH JUDDER. Much like a person driving a car with a 'stick shift' or motorcycle with a clutch and 5-6 forward gears who don't know how to use the clutch. The only problem with a B400 with the CLUTCH JUDDER, it has nothing to do with the rider and everything to do with a B400 not being built properly. In this regard, I had a lot of respect for the B650 which doesn't have this problem.
The NEXT HEADACHE is rattling plastic Tupperware! It took me 3 years to get rid of the rattling plastic parts on my B650. I'm not looking forward to having to pull apart the Tupperware and refit it to the B400 so it doesn't rattle. Another aspect of the scooter experience I don't like.
Back in the days of the Honda Elite 250, Helix 250 -CLUTCH JUDDER and RATTLING PLASTIC parts was never an issue. It's sad how many motorcycles are made so cheaply and charge a premium compare to their counter part in the mid-80s and 90s.

K7 400 All have clutch problems?

Suzuki intend recall on Burgman 400 K8 (juddering - Maxi-Muppets.co.uk

Clutch shoe de-glazing
 

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There's an older post on here from 'Quantem mechanic' that explains how to clean, or scuff your clutch shoes. It's the little simple details that REALLY make a difference. Mostly using a square block to sand the glaze off your clutch shoes evenly. I just did it by hand and it would start to judder in 400-500 miles, but by using a block under the sandpaper to keep things even and square made a huge difference! There were other tricks and tips as well.
Hopefully someone can pull up that post. It works and should be pinned.
 

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Taking off quickly from a stop rather than slowly usually helps reduce judder issues. Sanding the pads helped mine but problem came back fairly quickly, probably wasn't aggressive enough with the sanding. Because I also had an annoying issue of the clutch grabbing suddenly on takeoff, I replaced the whole clutch with a Dr. Pulley HiT clutch which has been flawless. Rather pricey fix but that's an option.
 

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R1200 I think you are possibly focusing too much on "negatives" before you've even ridden the bike, if it helps (and if it's available in the USA) read the April 2020 edition of the UK magazine "Motorcycle Sport and Leisure" pages 104 to 107 have several readers views on the 400 and 650; pages106 to 107 gives a reader's account of changing bikes and buying a 2020 B400 with zero miles and giving an account of running in etc. Might help...
 

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B400 is as smooth as the B650, I'll be happy😊!
On another forum I saw "If my Toyota Corolla is as smooth as my Bentley, I'll be happy."

Time to get real. The single-cylinder, standard CVT 400 will NEVER be as smooth as the dual cylinder, eCVT 650. It will NEVER cruise at 80 mph with the ease of its' big brother. But in-town and on congested freeways, the 400 is my go-to bike 100% of the time. On the open road, the 400 is fine - just not as fine as the 650.
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
There's an older post on here from 'Quantem mechanic' that explains how to clean, or scuff your clutch shoes. It's the little simple details that REALLY make a difference. Mostly using a square block to sand the glaze off your clutch shoes evenly. I just did it by hand and it would start to judder in 400-500 miles, but by using a block under the sandpaper to keep things even and square made a huge difference! There were other tricks and tips as well.

Hopefully someone can pull up that post. It works and should be pinned.
Thank you Mike33, the main thing that there is a solution to the problem :)

Time to get real. The single-cylinder, standard CVT 400 will NEVER be as smooth as the dual cylinder, eCVT 650.
I have been real as I sold my B650 to get the R1200R for touring. After putting on 20k miles on my R1200, my B650 was smoother. The dealer didn't sell my B650 so I bought my B650(y) from the dealership and sold my BMW R1200. I bought my Goldwing thinking it would be smoother than my B650, but I was wrong. Granted the suspension on both the Goldwing and R1200 are better and both bikes are very smooth -I would not hesitate to take either bikes cross country. The Burgman 650 is smoother than my former Honda Goldwing and BMW R1200. I haven't ridden the B400, but I do remember how smooth my Helix 250 was at WOT when I would take it on trips of 600-800 miles. I don't expect the B400 to be as smooth as the B650, but I am open-minded that the B400 is a smooth riding motorcycle like the B650.

No replacement for displacement -touring on the Goldwing and R1200 is more comfortable because there is more torque, power, acceleration and better suspension; however, the B650 can also tour in comfort. I see 'MicBergsma' video below, I'm not sure how comfortable he is doing 18 hours - 1,154 straight miles?

Taking off quickly from a stop rather than slowly usually helps reduce judder issues.
I use this technique on my new '16 400. In almost a full year of riding, I have not experienced judder even once.
Thank you! I will start this technique first to 'wear in' the clutch/belt assembly properly:)(y). I will remember that my B400 is for the L.A. city traffic with occasional touring duty shared with the B650

I see someone like "MicBergsma" going Florida to Texas - 18 hours - 1,154 straight miles in the video below. That is more touring miles I would do in 24 hours on any touring motorcycle. Interesting that he is doing this on a B400. So I have tons of respect for the B400 and 'MicBergsma'. That is 64.11 mph, but he had to stop at gas stations to refill, pit-stop{restroom} breaks, etc. Obviously his cruising speed was above 64 mph :cool:

Thank you for all the help!!
 

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Discussion Starter #18
ONE QUESTION: Where can I buy 'Key Blanks' for the Suzuki 2018 Burgman 400? The Suzuki is not returning calls to my dealership and all the key blanks that I find are up to 2017. I don't know if the key blank were changed in 2018?? It seems strange that no one including Suzuki would not carry key blanks for a 2 year old Suzuki Burgman. I did look on eBay, but found nothing on 2018 for the B400.
(below are keys for B400 up to 2017)
2003 - 2017 Suzuki Burgman Scooter AN400, AN650, UH200 Key Blanks
 

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The B400 is a completely different ride, the technique for clutch engagement mentioned earlier would certainly be one of the first things to adopt. Dunno about the 2018, but suspect little has changed it that department. However with all due respect to the idea of sanding the clutch pads, this is already a rather late cure, since the pad service limit is only 2 mm, so there's not much material to work with in the first place. On the other hand with right handling one can avoid glazing altogether, and that should be the goal. That is -- if pads glaze, the throttle operation is not correct.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
The B400 is a completely different ride, the technique for clutch engagement mentioned earlier would certainly be one of the first things to adopt. Dunno about the 2018, but suspect little has changed it that department. However with all due respect to the idea of sanding the clutch pads, this is already a rather late cure, since the pad service limit is only 2 mm, so there's not much material to work with in the first place. On the other hand with right handling one can avoid glazing altogether, and that should be the goal. That is -- if pads glaze, the throttle operation is not correct.
I know that the B400 CVT assembly is very different than my B650 CVT assembly. It seems like the B400 is closer to the Honda Silverwing 600 scooter. I owned the Silverwing 600 scooter that had some 'Clutch Judder' that was tolerable. It was the cheap Tupperware 'rattles' and fork seals that constantly brought me back to the shop on. Once the shop fixed those problems, the Silverwing ran great. At 15k, I changed the CVT belt -but after 15K there was no visible wear. The shop said it could easily go another 15k. Roller bearings had no visible wear I didn't replace them.

Hopefully the B400 will be the same without all the annoying aspects of owning a cheaper motorcycle/scooter. There is more Tupperware on the Goldwing and after owning 4 Goldwings, I never had problems with Tupperware or what you will find on cheaper bikes/scooters.
 
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