[Jumpty]

Hi Guys,

I don't post but have been an avid reader of this forum for some time and now hope that someone can help.

I have a 2006 Burgman 400 but the fuel injected version (not the new shape 2007 +...).

The bike has covered about 5000 miles and runs perfectly except for one problem.

When I try to start the bike sometimes the FI light and 'key light' will start flashing and the engine will turn but it will not fire or start.

The interesting things is that this ONLY happens when the weather is wet and bike has been ridden or standing in the rain - or when there is heavy fog. In sunny weather the bike starts absolutely perfectly all the time. As soon as there is a rainy day, this problem rears it's head again. If I kick the side-stand up and down then eventually the light stops flashing and I can start it, but the bike lurches forward slightly as if too much fuel. If I leave the bike for a day or so, I can start it again. The bike will never stop while the engine is running - once started it runs great.

My local Suzuki agents have not been able to fix or identify the problem and have cleaned all switch gear and sidestand switch etc but the problem still happens.

Sometimes when the bike is dry and working, I will take a hose and try to wet under the front cowling, the sidestand switch etc and try to emulate the problem but it will still work. The as soon as there is wet weather again the problem starts again - so why not when i personally spray it with water? Also, if i try to start the bike and I slightly stall it, then the problem will start but it's usually okay when i start the bike first time.

Could it be condensation somewhere? At my wits end with this!

Would appreciate some help if anyone knows?

Thank you.
James

 

[cliffyk]

Whenever starting problems occur in damp weather my first thoughts go toward the high voltage side of the ignition system. Check out the coil/plug wire and make sure they are clean and properly routed so as to be away from the block and frame tubes. Check the spark plug too, to make sure it is in good condition and gapped properly.

Here's why:

On the '03 to '07 burgman 400s (BTW all '03 to 06 400s are fuel injected) the ECM (Engine Control Module) senses the spark plug's firing by monitoring the peak voltage of the ignition coil's primary windings. If that voltage is too low ( less than 150 V) it likely means the spark plug has not fired and the ECM will throw error code C24 (Ignition System Malfunction) and flash the FI lamp.

The normal primary waveform (firing in open air) looks like this (Note that the peak voltage needed to ionise the plug gap is 232 V):

This is the voltage in the primary circuit. The waveform in the secondary circuit is similarly shaped however it's voltage is much higher as the coil is a transformer with a turns ratio of 75:1; meaning that the 232 V observed in the primary circuit will create a roughly 17.4 kV peak in the secondary.

What can happen if the plug wire and/or plug boot were dusty/dirty and damp is that the voltage would never rise that high. It would "bleed off" as it rises and never fully ionise the plug gap--and the plug would not fire or fire weakly. This would be reflected in the primary circuit, the ECM would "see" it, blink the FI lamp and throw a code.

A fouled plug can also cause this, as the ionising voltage will bleed off through the fouling before the gap ionises.

 

[Jumpty]

Thanks Cliff. Really appreciated. I will forward this to my auto electrician. J

 

[Scootereno]

I had an MG that would do that in the rain and it was water getting in the coil wire boot.

 

[Fatjock]

I had an MG that would do that in the rain and it was water getting in the coil wire boot.

Lucas Electrics.......'nuff said!

 

[cliffyk]

Lucas, the Prince of Darkness...

 

[DougInKY]

Thank the powers that be that the electronics in a Burgman aren't done by Lucas. I used to ride both old British bikes and drive old British sports cars. Hated the electronics in all of them and this was when they were new. I don't know who does the electrics in modern British bikes but they don't seem to have the problems we did way back when.

 

[Bill Seward]

Q: Why do the Brits drink warm beer?
A: They have no choice, they have Lucas refrigerators!

 

[knucklehead]

Q: Why do the Brits drink warm beer?
A: They have no choice, they have Lucas refrigerators!

Lucas isn't much loved by me either. I've owned 5-6 (can't recall for sure) Triumphs and BSA's over the years and only one had no problems whatever. A 68 Bonneville - ran perfect. I had a 62 Triumph T100 650 that I had nothing but problems with. I ended up tearing out the rectifier and associated wires and installed a battery for brakes and the occasional need for headlights. I'd recharge it every day or three. With the dim bulb I put in the headlight it would get me around for 3-4 hours before I'd have to head for home. The magneto must have been made by Bosch - never had to mess with it and it put out tons of spark. That motor started first kick nearly every time hot or cold. I made bets on it - and won money. I had a 500cc Matchless that I would bet anyone they could NOT start it first kick warm or cold. Made money on that too!

 

[v8eyedoc]

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!! That brings back old memories...... I havent heard the name - Matchless - mentioned in years........!!! Back in the day - we used to call them "MATCHBOXES" Remember that at all?

 

[Lenovo]

Same problem occurred to me

My Burgman 650 just experienced the same problem of FI indicator flashing after a rain. Sometime it does happen after a bikewash. Just sent to a local dealer for inspection and as usual they recommend to change a new ECU or ignition switch. They did not attempt to identify other problem that may lead to the ECU to fire off the FI indicator. The dealer asked the first test to try a new key. Is this possible ?

From cliffyk, to change the spark plug will it help ? Does the ECU sense a low voltage of the spark once i switch on the bike ? or does it sense it after I attempted to crank. I asked this because the flashing FI starts when I switched on the bike

 

[Buffalo]

If your bike is doing this after it gets wet then that is a sign you have a water getting into an electrical circuit it should not be getting into. You need to identify that and fix it. If your FI indicator is on you can put the ECM into dealer mode and a code will display on the dash. That code will point you at the place the ECM thinks there is a problem. That might help. This thread will show you how to put the ECM in dealer mode with a jumper wire http://burgmanusa.com/forums/341063-post.html

 

[Dragut]

Hi.. I had the same problem, and still having it on a K5 400.

It all started after a car wash experience. The FI light blinking, no firing.

First, I waited for a few hours and then it got fixed after the bike dried. Now, two days ago it did the same thing again, even when the weather was not damp. I called my mechanic and he told me that there was an "antenna" around the ignition key for the immobilizer chip, and this was short circuiting when wet. So i decided to pick a hair dryer and blow it inside the ignition key hole. To my surprise, it worked.

Then I had to cross to the other side with a ferry. Turned off the engine, and when the boat landed, nothing. FI blinking to my face again.

Went home with a taxi, picked a hair dryer, came back, blow it inside the keyhole for a few seconds, and it worked again. Came home, switched off, then tried again. Nope, FI light blinks.

Today, I wanted to take it to the mechanic, turned the switch on, of course the FI was always blinking. So i tried the hair dryer for the last time. It worked again. Took the bike to the mechanic and left it there.

Now, waiting for my mechanic to solve the problem. He says he'll re-insulate the ignition key block, and claims that this is a known issue with Burgmans but never officially communicated… just like the excessive oil consumption on high speeds on highway rides.

I don't want to admit it, but this bike really seems to have engineering issues. So far, the worst bike I ever had. Even worst that my last Ducati.

I had two Suzuki before, a Bandit and a DR, so I trusted the brand eyes closed. But this seems like it.

 

[Jumpty]

Ah, funnily enough my Suzuki dealer here in South Africa also said that the problem is the "antenna" but would cost $400 dollars or so to replace. I'm worried to replace it and then it does the same when getting wet... Would be nice to just by-pass the whole system instead - not sure if that is possible...