Suzuki Burgman USA Forum banner

1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,385 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Yesterday I did and oil change w/ filter, I have done 6 or 7 so it's routine, right.
Well I guess not, today I check the oil, take out the cap and at least a pint of oil spills out. (B 400)
OK I know I screwed up. :(
But how do you get that much extra oil into the engine to start with ?
Only "thing" different was today I checked it just after a ride, still very hot, but still I never saw oil expand that much ! Yes it looks to be pure clean oil, no water. OK one other "item" I switched from 20 W 50 to 10 W 30, but again I don't see that making a difference.
Any ideas on a solution would sure be welcome ! :?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,008 Posts
Here is a guess. Did you change the filter too. If no, did you put the amount of oil including the filter change into the bike.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,070 Posts
Roy might have something there.

Do you fill the filter with oil before you install it? If so, that would explain the extra pint of oil if you filled the crankcase with the "proper" amount after installing the already full filter. :oops:

Just a thought...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
319 Posts
Murphy's Law, if something can be done or put together wrong or backwards someone will try to do it that way. Just never heard of anyone filling the filter before installing the replacement.
But, I've heard of someone filling his engine FULL of oil after draining and changing the filter. Didn't run.

Though in the post, as I read it, he checked oil level after the change, though he does mention oil being hot which I took to be is what he drained out.. If there were water in the oil their would be a white foam in whatt drained. Of course some oil could splash out if trying to check while engine is runing.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
11,296 Posts
Randy

A question begets more questions. I have two.

:lol:

1. Did you measue how much you put in - How much?
2. Did you measure what came out of the drain - How much?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,008 Posts
Chuck, I put the filter in dry and add 2 quarts of oil. Run it a little to get the oil pumped into the filter. Let it sit for a little while and check the level. Top it off if necessary. But if you do not change the filter you add 3.4 oz (100ml) less oil.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,002 Posts
I once watched Bill Meek's 400 do exactly the same thing after his engine rebuild; the dealer had refilled the crankcase in this incident. The oil just flowed and flowed and flowed when he removed the cap to check it with the motor warm; I never saw anything like it. He must have lost close to half a pint.

It really freaked me out at the time; because of the fresh engine rebuild I was wondering about all sorts of strange and exotic things that might have gone wrong (none of which really made sense, mind you). I even advised him to tow the bike to the dealer instead of riding it that far, which I think I remember him actually doing.

For what it's worth, the dealer-mechanic said the oil-flow was impossible. But I was there, and saw it too. <shrug>.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
848 Posts
Yupper said:
Just never heard of anyone filling the filter before installing the replacement.
You should always fill the filter before installing it. It ensures no 'air locks in the lubrication system upon first start up after the oil change. A master mechanic I worked with taught me that over 30 years ago.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,385 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Norman, No, and No.
Your right of course but it the old story of (you think) you know what your doing. BUT nothing I have read so far explains how I got to much oil in the engine ! No I don't pre soak the filter, not that it matters.
The bike is on the center stand, you can only fit in so much oil before it will just flow out the fill hole,
I would think it is impossible to add to much oil (that much ) unless the bike was leaned over on the kick stand.
It just makes no since at all, I added oil, put the dip stick cap on, I must have checked the oil it had to show full or I would not have left it (I don't remember, each move) the level shows OK I am done..
Next day after a ride I unscrew the dip stick cap and oil flows out on to the floor--were did it come from!!!!!

Question - could hot oil expand that much ?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
11,296 Posts
Randy said:
Norman, No, and No.
Your right of course but it the old story of (you think) you know what your doing. BUT nothing I have read so far explains how I got to much oil in the engine ! No I don't pre soak the filter, not that it matters.
The bike is on the center stand, you can only fit in so much oil before it will just flow out the fill hole,
I would think it is impossible to add to much oil (that much ) unless the bike was leaned over on the kick stand.
It just makes no since at all, I added oil, put the dip stick cap on, I must have checked the oil it had to show full or I would not have left it (I don't remember, each move) the level shows OK I am done..
Next day after a ride I unscrew the dip stick cap and oil flows out on to the floor--were did it come from!!!!!

Question - could hot oil expand that much ?
Well that is kind of puzzling. Personally I do not think it matters too much about charging the filter prior to this operation you ain't going to get much in the filter anyhow.

Of course warm oil will expand - BUT not the volume you are quoting.
Randy said:
Yesterday I did and oil change w/ filter, I have done 6 or 7 so it's routine, right.
Well I guess not, today I check the oil, take out the cap and at least a pint of oil spills out. (B 400)
OK I know I screwed up. :(
But how do you get that much extra oil into the engine to start with ?
Only "thing" different was today I checked it just after a ride, still very hot, but still I never saw oil expand that much ! Yes it looks to be pure clean oil, no water. OK one other "item" I switched from 20 W 50 to 10 W 30, but again I don't see that making a difference.
Any ideas on a solution would sure be welcome ! :?
My theory is this - when you change the oil everything engine wise is kind of cold - yes the oil is warm but the piston ring sealing is well down below optimum temp. When you checked the oil after running the engine (good ring sealing) the pressure in the crankcase was higher than atmospheric and when you removed the filler it just pushed that stuff up and outa the hole - if you had left the engine another 5 minutes -I bet a nickel it would not have flowed. I am of course prepared to be wrong coz as I have said many times I am no expert! :wink:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,385 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Norman,
I could almost live with what part of that I understood :D
Except I tilted the bike to empty a little more oil, went for a ride, checked it hot, and then cold it is holding perfect.
Some oil got traped or pushed past the rings, never heard of that , but not imposable, I guess :?
If it's possible that would explain it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
553 Posts
A crack at it

Randy said:
Norman, No, and No.
Your right of course but it the old story of (you think) you know what your doing. BUT nothing I have read so far explains how I got to much oil in the engine ! No I don't pre soak the filter, not that it matters.
The bike is on the center stand, you can only fit in so much oil before it will just flow out the fill hole,
I would think it is impossible to add to much oil (that much ) unless the bike was leaned over on the kick stand.
It just makes no since at all, I added oil, put the dip stick cap on, I must have checked the oil it had to show full or I would not have left it (I don't remember, each move) the level shows OK I am done..
Next day after a ride I unscrew the dip stick cap and oil flows out on to the floor--were did it come from!!!!!

Question - could hot oil expand that much ?
Hello Randy, I'm take a crack at it. Did you have a cold engine instead of a warn engine when you drained the oil as the manual says to? If not you may have not gotton all the oil out of the engine and then when you added two quarts like it calls for you over filled it.
Just a guess.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,402 Posts
The engine WAS switched OFF when you checked the oil right? :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,166 Posts
I am not sure on this but can't you fit quite a bit more oil (on the 400) in the engine while on the sidestand (rather than centerstand)?
I checked my oil once while on center stand and it immediately started to flow out so I quickly screwed back in the filler cap, put it on sidestand and had to add a bit to get it back up to the top of the dipstick line. Since then I've always checked/added oil while on sidestand. And when I changed my oil/filter I put it on sidestand afterwards to 'top it off'. I would rather have a bit too much oil and risk froth than too little and risk overheating (my mileage may vary).
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
11,296 Posts
Randy said:
Norman,
I could almost live with what part of that I understood :D
Except I tilted the bike to empty a little more oil, went for a ride, checked it hot, and then cold it is holding perfect.
Some oil got traped or pushed past the rings, never heard of that , but not imposable, I guess :?
If it's possible that would explain it.
All I was trying to explain (obviously not very well :wink: ) was that on the second time of checking your engine was hot and there was residual pressure in the crankcase - which when you released the filler cap allowed that pressure to equalise with atmospheric pressure BUT in the process carried oil out with it. I was not suggesting there was trapped oil.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,385 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
Norman.,

Ahhhhhhh the light ! :)
I can't help it if I am dense. :(
So it may not have been an overfill, just presser pushing oil out, not bad !!! 8)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
611 Posts
Switching to a thinner oil in the Texas Summer is going the wrong way, and I think it could have contributed to your "gusher". Thinner oil is going to expand more, especially when the engine is hot, instead of warm. This could be a serious problem if the oil in the cylinder head got hot enough to boil because it not only expands like crazy - but also loses it's lubricating properties.

Check your crankcase vent to make sure it isn't clogged. You normally have oil trapped in the system that doesn't drain out with an oil change. A clogged vent could have caused the system to be pressurized, and force more oil out of the cylinder head/valve area than normal. The crancase vents are for more than atmospheric changes. All engines have a little bit of blow-by at the piston rings - which increases the pressure in the crancases (especially in new or rebuilt engines).

Crankcase vents normally vent into the air box - so check your air box to make sure it isn't full of oil.

Check your oil level while warm a few times to make sure the level doesn't seem to be going up and down.

If you changed your oil with the engine cold the previous time - then you might have left more oil in it.

I can't think of anything else. Was it running fine? Making any more engine noise than usual?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
319 Posts
Rubble wrote:

"You should always fill the filter before installing it. It ensures no 'air locks in the lubrication system upon first start up after the oil change. A master mechanic I worked with taught me that over 30 years ago."

Well, I'd like to see this "Master Mechanic" mount a replacement oil filter on some of the engines that I've changed them on where the filter is mounted horizontally. Others, where in order to get them into where they mount without turning them sideways - OIL all over everything. :?:
Oil will flow into filter(s) as it's being poured into the engine.

Only filter I know of that is filled before mounting is a fuel filter on some diesel engines, that is done in order to prevent air in the fuel line going to the pump and the injectores.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24 Posts
explain me this one!

Hi Randy, Don't think your crazy cause I had a similar thing happen to me. Just changed the oil and filter with 2 liters of 10-40 oil getting ready for a day trip. After the oil change I ran the engine for a few minutes to warm up and checked the oil, right on the money. Took off and put about 100 miles at freeway speed( 70 to 80) on a very hot day and when I got off to fill up with gas I thought I would check the oil again since it was so hot. Bike was on the center stand and pretty level when I took the filler cap out and some oil was trying to run out. Put the cap back on in a hurry burning my fingers in the process( that stuff gets pretty hot ). Looked at it again the next day and everything was ok. I'm thinking expansion cause it was very hot and the engine has a pretty good size vent tube into the air box and it didn't come out like it was under pressure. Plus I think the valve cover is also vented through the pair valve into the exhaust port though that might only work during running. So hope your still not feeling to crazy over this. Tom
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,284 Posts
I few things on this:

1. It is a mystery, although if the 400 is at or just above it's upper limit, it is pretty close to the top of the fill hole. Oil does expand a lot. That is why some engines have to be warm to check the oil. If the pan is wide and flat you won't see much height change. A narrow one will change the oil level quite a bit, with a little expansion, possible enough that if it was already at the upper limit or just above, it will overflow it. You don't have to put your level to the top of the slashed area, just in the slashed area. To be safe, when ever you change your oil, fill it to the the lower area, start it to fill the filter and add to the lower lever again, then warm it and check it again.

2. As for filling the filter, the filter is dry until the oil pump fills it. Older vehicles, and trucks with vertical filters, they are able to be filled, and it prevents the dry run while the filter is filling. The oil filter is on the pressure side of the pump so it will not get airlocked. The diesel fuel filter is on the suction side of the high pressure/low volume pump, and can cause you a headache if you lose your prime. The Burgman oil filter is mounted on it's side like many modern vehicles, and will just leave a puddle on your garage floor for all your efforts.

3. Overfilling your engine can be as bad as underfilling. There is an upper limit for a reason. Engines are engineered with an adequate air space in them for a little blow by, and the pressure of the piston(s) coming down . The vent relieves some of the over pressure, but when you consider the size of the vent hose to the size of the piston it has to use the airspace to absorbe the rest of it. Overpressure will blow the seals and gaskets out of your engine. If the oil gets high enough that the crank starts pounding on the surface it can cause some serious damage. If it gets high enough that the piston hits it (like in a horizontal Burgman engine), it will shatter it.

Hope I helped, and didn't muddy the waters.
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Top