[airhead83]

I thought this was an interesting article concerning alternative fuels. No specs were releases, but at least Kawi's thinking outside the box.
It may be like lots of other protypes and never see the light of day outside the testing lab? We'll see.
Kawasaki Unveils Hydrogen-Powered KRX 1000 (msn.com)

 

[Bluebottle]

I can’t open that link but Kawasaki had a engine (Just the engine) on their stand at EICMA in Milan with 2 electric bikes for ‘23 and a hybrid for ‘24.

As you say, not many hydrogen vehicles making it into the wild, many given up on.

 

[thundercat]

I thought this was an interesting article concerning alternative fuels. No specs were releases, but at least Kawi's thinking outside the box.
It may be like lots of other protypes and never see the light of day outside the testing lab? We'll see.
Kawasaki Unveils Hydrogen-Powered KRX 1000 (msn.com)

Looks like a hydrogen ICE as opposed to hydrogen fuel cell, EV. Not a bad solution either. Either way, need to power to make hydrogen... Also if the emissions is water or water vapor... 😉 Check 1st chart scrolling down...

Still good to have options. Hopefully best one(s) will win w/o gov't interference... 😒

Torn, betwn ICE's and EVs.. Love simplicity of electric motor but ICEs have pure power of boom boom.. I'll be wearing a harley helmet next 🤣

 

[Bluebottle]

Water as a greenhouse gas depends on heat. It doesn’t control warming because it condenses and precipitates.

Instead it is an amplifier - more warming= more water vapour = more warming.
So in that sense it isn’t like CO2 or methane.


However, a fuel cell vehicle is an electric vehicle, it just uses hydrogen in place of batteries.
It is much less efficient though, so if you don’t like batteries because generating electricity is dirty or the power stations can’t cope, you will like this even less.

Mostly the water previously existed as water, sort of, so it isn’t additional product and radiative forcing is going to be less at near surface than in the upper troposphere.
But It’s actually a fossil fuel in that its currently almost entirely produced by steam methane reforming of natural gas creating various emissions.

Burning it in an engine produces NOx, and uses oil etc.

Plus side, hydrogen is energy dense so the vehicle weighs less

Haven’t been involved with hydrogen in a long while but the last cell had $1,000 just in platinum content and wore out really quick, no chance of DIY because any air in the system destroyed the cell

 

[airhead83]

Mostly the water previously existed as water, sort of, so it isn’t additional product and radiative forcing is going to be less at near surface than in the upper troposphere.
But It’s actually a fossil fuel in that its currently almost entirely produced by steam methane reforming of natural gas creating various emissions.

I'm calling Foul.... No fair clarifying things with truths, facts, and correct thinking.
That may work in the UK, but.........
That's NOT the way things work in the US....
We hear and read what agrees with our preconceived notions, and... "Case Closed. It has to be True. You'll Never Change My Mind".

 

[Bluebottle]

I'm calling Foul...

Well I’ve been on most most continents and lots of countries and it seems to me people are evenly mixed across them all, no one of them has a monopoly on idiots are geniuses.
Luckily - sense of humour too I see.

 

[thundercat]

Water as a greenhouse gas depends on heat. It doesn’t control warming because it condenses and precipitates.

Instead it is an amplifier - more warming= more water vapour = more warming.
So in that sense it isn’t like CO2 or methane.

*

I have posted the data itself along with the tools to refute your own statements.. You should really read the logical fallacy stuff though.. You should start another thread to dispute and keep it open..

As to the screen shot I added from the link, the engine looks similar to the Kawi H2 engine with the turbo bolted on top. I can see many wild horses if they release the specs. Looks awesome too.. That's another thing, ICEs just look cooler then an electric motor..

 

[Dave_J]

...................................... That's another thing, ICEs just look more BITCHING with a BIG TURBO then an electric motor..

Fixed that for ya.

 

[Bluebottle]

One thing I do remember is premixing ammonia with hydrogen to change the flame speed and/or using ammonia alone as a fuel.

Ammonia is very high octane and combustion doesn’t produce CO2 so it isn’t adding to the warming/water vapour/warming greenhouse feedback loop out of the tail pipe. It emits nitrogen and water (incomplete combustion can produce NOx).

It can also be used to move hydrogen from a to b more easily (containing and transporting hydrogen is a nightmare). Carrying it as NH3 and then cracking it is easier.

It can attack metal (so does hydrogen) and has other problems in handling and as a pollutant.

 

[Bigmc]

This is interesting:
BMW CEO says reliance on EV’s is a dangerous thing.

HERE

 

[Bluebottle]

That would be great, if we get over the massive problems first.
Hydrogen is currently high emissions and highly inefficient.

Sadly more than 95% of the the hydrogen comes from fossil fuels and takes electricity to do it. A tiny fraction is “green” hydrogen from splitting water (which is still hugely inefficient).

For one kilogram of hydrogen gas, about 9 kilograms of CO2 is emitted

If that is somehow resolved and the industry shifts to greener production, there are further losses getting that to the wheels (see below)

Yes, multiple approaches are required, I don’t think anyone has said otherwise. Hydrogen might be one, but it’s main proponents are the oil industry, it keeps them in the game and users reliant on them.

 

[mikeyMarine]

So, hay or oats to energy? emissions?(ew)

 

[Bluebottle]

In terms of rare earth metals, Ev and hydrogen cars hold about the same.

lithium batteries contain only trace amounts, there will be some in any circuit board - but the H car is battery powered and has a lithium battery with a similar controller circuit board.
Rare Earths are in the motors, which they both have.

(hydrogen reaction takes time and has a huge lag between hitting the pedal and power delivery while so they must still have a battery).

H does require other metals, particularly platinum, palladium, manganese and cobalt to produce it and especially platinum and to use it (people who didn’t know or care about cobalt when it’s main use was removing sulphur from crude oil are suddenly very much against it, but hey ho).

Plus of course lithium ion isn’t the only way to make a battery.

Be cautious over this concept that hydrogen doesn’t require troublesome mining for metals or omly produces water. Even at its very best you can’t burn more energy out of it than it took to “un-but“ it from water in the first place, and between the two you lose the majority along the way.

edit:typo

 

[Bluebottle]

What may kill off the hydrogen option is that it leaks, a lot - which increases warming.

Hydrogen is notoriously difficult to seal into storage because it is so small. In addition, lines/containers must be vented and purged because air is toxic to fuel cells and there are inevitable escapes during connections and accidents.

Hydrogen itself isn’t a greenhouse gas but it is highly reactive. It causes ozone increase in the troposphere and methane and water vapour increase in the stratosphere.
Greenhouse gases like methane are scrubbed from the atmosphere by hydroxyl radicals (HO), but these have a greater affinity for hydrogen, this reaction creates high level water vapour (H2O), removing the HO that would normally mop up methane - leading to an increase in two of the biggest warming factors.

 

[mikeyMarine]

yup, always hard to contain gases under pressure, especially on the treadmill, an it don't matter if yer earbuds are loud, yer neighbors still know