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Discussion Starter #1
Hi everyone,

I have some engine oil protectant treatment bottles sitting in my garage and I haven't gotten a chance to use them yet. However, I've been reading some good reviews on engine oil additives and treatment. For example, there is a product called lube guard engine oil protectant that "reduces friction and oil consumption" there is another product by Valvoline that also is a engine oil protectant. It reduces wear and tear on motor oil and is used to supplement our engine oil from overheating and helps it disperse heat better. Has anyone had any good luck with these? I am doing research on these and will be adding some in my Burgman 400 the next oil change. If I use these motor oil protectants does this mean I can go for longer runs without having to change the oil since it slows the oil from wearing out? Opinions? I wonder how much I should put in with the next oil change

http://www.lubegard.com/~/C-306/LUBEGARD+BIO-TECH+Engine+Oil+Protectant

FOR USE IN ALL DIESEL
AND GASOLINE ENGINES

Reduces oil and fuel consumption!
Optimizes engine horsepower and performance
Protects and extends oil life by 30%
Improves fuel economy by reducing friction in your engine
Reduces wear on metal components, thus increasing part life
Improves anti-friction and anti-wear properties of ALL major oil brands to meet requirements of ALL vehicles, including older and high performance models
Eliminates lifter and other objectionable noise on startup, especially in cold weather
Ensures smoother running engines
Reduces hot engine oil temperatures
Gives improvement in friction and wear performance over major brands of motor oil
Blends with ALL motor oils currently produced, including API; SJ, SJ/EC, CG- 4, CH-4, SE, SF, SG, SI, CC, CD, CE, SL, SD, SM and CF motor oils
Helps reduce smoking by restoring flexibility to valve stem seals for improved sealing, also providing outstanding upper cylinder lubricity as it frees up sticking rings
Inhibits oxidation and extends engine oil life (see TFOUT test results below)
Also use to extend the life of small 4 cycle engines such as; lawn maintenance equipment, motorcycles, snow mobiles, etc.


Valvoline engine oil
treatment http://www.valvolineeurope.com/english/products/cooling_44__engine_treatments/cid(565)/oil_treatment

Valvoline Oil Treatment contains a polymer that increases the viscosity index of engine oil, making the oil more viscous (thicker) at high temperatures without increasing viscosity proportionally at low-temperatures. Engine oil fortified with Oil Treatment still becomes less viscous (thinner) as temperature increases and more viscous (thicker) as temperature decreases, but at a slower rate than non-treated oil. Oil Treatment increases oil viscosity at high temperatures, which helps reduce blow-by and oil burning by helping piston rings form a better seal. Oil Treatment also contains an extreme-pressure additive that helps reduce engine wear.

>> Minimizes oil consumption
>> Reduces friction
>> Improves piston ring seal and compression
>> Increases lubricity
>> Improves viscosity index of oil
>> Protects engines from extreme-pressure wear
 

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Don't put any additives in your oil. Suzuki recommends a specific oil type and it does not indorse the use of any friction modifiers. An oil change is cheap money and when done on schedule is sufficient for proper lubrication. The engine is not exactly a racing engine built to high performance tolerances. It is a scooter motor with about 35 horsepower that delivers sufficient performance using un-modified engine oil.

Probably not what you want to hear as a first response. I have to ask what did you expect to achieve by adding modifiers to your oil?
 

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I have had many engines, and have never worn one out (and I have tried) running conventional or synthetic oil out of the bottle.

This includes WOT single cyl engines, off road 4x4 high heat and slow speeds, multiple cars/trucks, never lost one ever. Two were at 200,000 miles or more. The vehicle or other components will wear out before the engine, unless it is a Dodge! :D

What they said 100% don't do it.
 

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>>Don't put any additives in your oil<<

Ditto that.... don't waste your money.
Dittos again. Our bikes don't want it or need it.
 

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No additive has ever been proven to work, by the Society of automotive engineers.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
What shall I do with the engine oil protectant that is sitting in my garage then? Surely it shouldn't go to waste!

@ above poster, Chevron techron (fuel additive) is actually proven to work cleaning valves and carbon. It's got a five star rating on Amazon from hundreds of users
 

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What shall I do with the engine oil protectant that is sitting in my garage then? Surely it shouldn't go to waste!

@ above poster, Chevron techron (fuel additive) is actually proven to work cleaning valves and carbon. It's got a five star rating on Amazon from hundreds of users
I recently used the Techron in the 13,300 mile 2008 Burgman I purchased last fall . When I pulled it off the rack after going through the bike from stem to stern , it idled a little on the rough side and out in the street it would flutter a bit on take off if I gave it to much throttle . The bike had been sitting for a while and when I got it there wasn't much gas so I filled it up right away , I have no idea how old the gas was in the tank when I got it . I ran that gas out and there was still a rough idle so I bought a bottle of Techron and added it to the next 2 tanks . After the first tank full it was pretty much perfect but I added the Techron to another just for good measure . That did it and now it runs perfect , was it the Techron or the gas or it just needed to be run ? I don't know for sure but I would definitely try it again .

TheReaper!
 

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The term "Snake Oil" comes to mind when I hear about this stuff. A good quality oil will all ready have the additives in it needed for todays engines.
John
 

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There are lots of good engine oil additives that have been proven to do exactly what they say on the tin. German engineering firm TUV who test enormous amounts of stuff for the motor industry confirm this as does the MAA. However, there are several categories that these fall into but the two main ones are oil index modifiers to improve viscosity: good for use in worn engines. And, friction modifiers to reduce engine internal friction, and these are split into two groups. Those that modify the oil itself and those that modify the bearing surfaces of the actual metal in the engine. There are also combinations of the two of course with other stuff in as well. All work very well. Can be a minefield to sort out which one you actually want.

For those that think that's rubbish, remember that all oils contain additives. That's how you get different oils to reach different specs. And of course these are added at the factory to be make up a good all round oil fit for purpose it's designed for. Some are fully syn which have fantastic friction reducing properties. So much so that if you use it in a new or very low mileage engine, it simply won't run in or finish conforming. Higher viscosity oils use extra index improves, just the same as in the tins of stuff you buy at the store to put in a worn engine. Nothing snake oil about any of them. As an ex-tech and engine design and development engineer, it was my job to know this stuff as we talked to the oil company's frequently to get specialist oil for specific engines and sometimes to design our own oils and additives. It's no surprise that many engines in industry must have additive added to them to make the engines last.

So don't dismiss them, even if most engines these days don't need them. But you can further improve fuel economy and power output if you choose the right one. That's proven.
 

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If there was such a thing as a Miracle drug for engines it would be Techron. Yamaha motors started recommending the fuel treatment in their engines but under their brand name of Ring Free. It will keep a fuel system clean and remove carbon buildup in the cylinders. I used it in my latest 2008 650 when I bought it last month. It had only seen 80 miles in 5 years and the fuel system had old fuel. I've actually ran outboards off of pure Techron, shut them down after sucking the last bit out of the bottle, let it sit overnight and restart them the next day. It wii blow all kinds of black gook out the exhaust.
 

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The Facts About Aftermarket Oil Additives by Amsoil.

The fact is they are totally useless and in many cases actually detrimental or damaging to your engine. If you quietly corner a lubrication engineer (in case he works - or might one day work - for one of "those" companies) and ask him "off the record", he'll tell you that oil additives are the modern version of “snake oil” sales: completely fraudulent, they’re an unethical embarrassment to the lubrication industry. The Federal Trade Commission has issued charges of false and deceptive advertising that these and many other additive manufacturers have misled consumers into believing that their products offer increased engine protection and performance when added to your motor oil. FTC examples

Federal Trade Commission Charges zMax with False and Deceptive Advertising

Read about the latest FTC charges against zMax in our informative articles link. ZMax is the latest company to be charged in a long list of companies. The FTC has successfully halted false and deceptive advertising by the marketers of Dura Lube, Motor Up, Prolong, Valvoline, Slick 50, STP and other major brands of engine treatment systems. Unfortunately, halting the deceptive advertising does not correct the false word-of-mouth advertising which continues to be spread by unsuspecting customers who don't know they were originally lied to.

Without going into extensive detail here's what you need to know about aftermarket oil additives: There are basically two types of additives used, either Teflon based with PTFE (like Slick 50) or Chlorinated based (like Dura Lube) with some type of carrier, usually a paraffin based carrier or other mineral oil. Some have extremely large amounts of moly (or MoS2 - Molybdenum Disulfide), zinc or phosphorus: all are EP (extreme pressure) agents which are detrimental to a motor oils' proper function in the amount that they use.

EP additives are great in gear lubes (where they're widely used by the whole lubrication industry), but they typically cause increased friction, heat, and reduced fuel economy at the lower-pressure loads in an engine application. And at the higher operating temperatures that engine oils are subjected to, EP's typically break down and cause corrosion of copper/bronze/brass components (bearings).

Teflon does absolutely nothing beneficial inside your engine. Teflon must be heated up to about 800 deg. F to get it to stick to anything for friction reducing purposes, just like the Teflon on a frying pan. In your engine what those suspended microscopic colloidal Teflon particles do is gradually attach to your oil pick-up screen and reduce oil flow to your critical components as well as reducing the oil flow in other critical internal engine passages by attaching themselves to the passageway walls. In addition, as your oil filter captures some of these suspended Teflon particles, your filter flow rate will be reduced with a higher pressure drop across the filter. The increasing restriction can gradually default more frequently into by-pass mode even at moderate temperatures and engine rpm's, which means more unfiltered oil will be flowing through your engine. At higher rpm's, some filters can collapse from the higher pressure differentials, starving your engine for oil and producing rapid engine failure.

Ever get bleach on your fingers? It's pretty slippery isn't it? Same principle here. Add enough Chlorinated components to a carrier and mix it with some type of teflon, moly, zinc or phosporus & you can reduce the friction, except for one "minor" thing: Chlorinated additives mixed with oil and subjected to heat form hydrochloric acid! Hydrochloric acid is extremely detrimental to your internal engine parts. Get the picture?

That's it in a nutshell. Bottom line is: When using a properly formulated motor oil you do not need any additives whatsoever and additionally, the additives you may put in can react negatively with the additives the oil company carefully blended in. Do yourself a favor and stay away from aftermarket oil additives, regardless of how appealing the bogus claims are in their advertising!

What if They Have a Test To Show How Their Additive Works?... Read On............

At a recent trade show we attended, one of these miracle oil additive companies was there with a machine that demonstrated how their additive reduced friction. It was a motor with rotating solid steel disc secured to the motor shaft and a torque meter with a flat piece of steel mounted on the torque arm. They put every type of oil on the market, one by one, on the machine & pressed hard on the torque meter and at about 20-40 lb-ft torque the torque arm would stall the motor....that is, until they cleaned it off & tried their (chlorinated) additive "IXL" on the bearing & ran the test.

People were amazed as the meter peaked out at 140 lb-ft. torque and still didn't stall the motor! We knew what was happening but many unsuspecting consumers were eating it up and standing in line to buy the additive! The next day we showed up with some Head & Shoulders Shampoo disguised in an oil bottle & had the IXL additive people try it on their test machine. The operator was amazed as the motor just barely stalled at 140 lb-ft! The operator says that's pretty good stuff, what is it? We said Head & Shoulders. He was quite embarrassed to say the least. Head & Shoulders has high levels of high potency ZINC in it that attaches itself to ferrous metals. Coke soft drink will do exactly the same thing. ZINC reduces friction and provides anti-wear protection and is present in most motor oils at a much reduced level. Now, would you put Head & Shoulders in your engine?

Additionally, the test machine was measuring EXTREME PRESSURE. This was their secret demo trick. Motor oils do not have extreme pressure (EP) additives blended in like gear lubes do. There is absolutely no need for EP additives in a motor oil. A gear lube would not stall the motor as easily because gear lubes have high levels of Extreme Pressure additives blended in, but do you think they would test their IXL additive against gear lubes? Heck no! They use motor oil....They are comparing apples to oranges & tricking you into buying their additive! Same theory holds true for Slick50, Prolong, Dura Lube, Motor Up, Valvoline Engine Treatment and many others.

By the way, I personally requested and reviewed the available IXL "test data": they had to mail photocopies. When I got it, I could see why it wasn't available online. A couple of simple made-up tests done by a university lab that measured HP and RPM differences so small that they could be due to instrumentation error or morning/afternoon air temperature differences. No standardized ASTM tests were performed at all: IXL has none of the API industry-standard controlled testing results whatsoever. The logical conclusion is that the product cannot show any favorable results in standardized testing procedures. ("Standardized" tests are tightly-defined, and proven to be very reliable and repeatable.)

Yes, but what about Lucas Oil Stabilizer?
Isn't it used extensively in drag racing? Yes it is, and it's a unique category in oil additives with a milder version of deception. With high-alcohol fuels and high horsepower, there is a huge problem with the engine oil becoming rapidly diluted (thinned out) by the alcohol. To combat this problem, drag racers commonly use a very heavy racing oil (like 60 weight), then add Lucas to the oil because it increases the viscosity even more. That way, as the oil is being rapidly diluted going down the dragstrip, when they back off the throttle it might be a 30 or 40 weight oil instead of a 10 or 20 weight oil that would allow a lot of engine damage.

Now, what does ANY of that have to do with your vehicle? NOTHING ! Adding their product to your oil will increase the weight (viscosity) of your engine oil, which will decrease your fuel economy and increase your oil pressure. Increasing the oil pressure beyond the 30 or 40 weight that the engine's designed for doesn't help you. In fact, it's a negative because it adds load to your starter and battery, especially in cold weather, and it makes your engine wear faster. That's right - your engine wears faster for two main reasons: because during cold starts it takes longer to get the oil to all the components, and the higher oil pressure drop across your oil filter means that more of the oil will bypass the filter than normally occurs while your engine is warming up during driving. So you're pumping additional wear particles through the engine rather than filtering them out.

The deception is that they want you to assume that what's good in a top-fuel dragster is good for your engine, without actually making that claim on their bottle.
Lubrication engineers say: Motor oils, transmission fluids and gear lubes are carefully designed and balanced lubrication packages that are scientifically formulated and rigorously tested. Want better performance? Buy a better product whose performance is proven by industry standardized testing. Please DON'T be fooled by oil additives
 

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I feel sure that any additives that improve the performance of oil has already been added to the oil by the manufacturer.
 

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Put it your garden tractor or mower.

Or Yard Sale.



What shall I do with the engine oil protectant that is sitting in my garage then? Surely it shouldn't go to waste!

@ above poster, Chevron techron (fuel additive) is actually proven to work cleaning valves and carbon. It's got a five star rating on Amazon from hundreds of users
 
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I'm another fan of Techron. I try to run some every 5K-10K miles to remove fuel residues. I had issues with residue (varnish) in carburetors and throttle bodies in the past.
 

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Chappy, nice post but a bit misleading and completely biased against them, probably because you haven't used them and haven't tested them as I have. Well haven't tested all of them. You'll understand there are quite a few types and brands and we only tested those we needed to use! But, you are only telling part of the story and you are a bit mixed up. I don't know how many oil additives there are out there but to my knowledge I've never heard of anyone finding an oil additive in the mainstream bunch that doesn't work. Quite the reverse. The only thing that has happened over the years to some of them is they have been forced to explain better how the additives work, what the product does and how it does it rather than make sweeping claims in their advertising which is what most of the furore is about. You are quite out of date with some of your info too and just plain wrong in some of the things you are saying.

I'm ex-master tech and engine design and development engineer and we worked with additives all the time (it's a requirement) and we also worked alongside the oil companies, who I must say were incredibly helpful to us. Let me give you an example of where you are off the mark. Extreme pressure agents in modern oils are a complete requirement. You imply they don't exist in modern engine oils. Plain wrong! Many engine oils have them in, not just tranny oil, and without them many engines would fail. They do not cause engine wear in their modern day form. The old types of ep metals used in engine oils and indeed additive are now not used or used in reduced amounts in the main stream as they are bad for the environment, not because wear or corrosion was a problem. Oils carry substances to combat corrosion. Now other more suitable ep agents are used instead. These work well. Engines such as the VW PD engines (to name just one) require them and without them will toasts it's cams in 8-10k miles (with ep agents in the oil it runs 400k miles without a problem). Much like some GM engines of a few years ago. All modern turbo charged petrol engines require them too.

Regarding Slick, it's been found to be one of the best additives going in engineering terms, it's fantastic. It's a metal treatment of course using the oil as a carrier. It does not require very high temps to stick to the metal as it fills in the pores of the metal at microscopic level using mainly load and combustion heat to generate enough heat requirement. It works, it's tested and real. Your analysis with frying pans in not valid. The problems you site with Slick are from a good few years ago and only a few engines overall had that problem, but Dupont pulled out of supplying the PTFE for fear of law suites. Now Slick use a smaller PTFE profile to overcome any possible problems and it works even better. How do I know? My company tested it some years ago in our development engines. As has TUV Testing House of Germany. The premier engineering testers of our time. It does exactly what it says on the tin. Most do.

Your analogy with Head & Shoulders shampoo is somewhat perplexing. It just says that Zirconium in the HS shampoo works. Of course no one would put it in their engine, it's not designed to go in the engine. The fact it has Zirconium in just reinforces the point that any type of oil additive with that in it works. You sure helped that oil additive company and it is of no surprise to me that what you did worked. However, there are other things in the additive too that make it last and work even better.

So the overall question being asked by the OP is really, are oil additives any good? Answer: Yes but choose carefully to achieve the result you are looking for. Are they needed? Mostly no.

However, there are many reasons why someone may want to use one. Worn engine additives can reduce oil consumption and boost power. Friction modifiers can improve power and fuel economy, preventing engine wear even further over and above standard oil. Again all proven. My own GSX1400 with Slick 50 installed put out 8% more power on the dyno after being run for 1000 miles with it in the engine. I covered over 190,000 trouble free miles on that bike. TUV found overall that bikes tested put out 6% more power on average with Slick in them. This also equates to better economy too.

So Chappy, yours was a useful post and makes the point one should always be careful about what you put in your engine, but I've added some caveats and clarification I hope. I could go on with lots of other technical stuff, test reports etc etc but it's inappropriate here and at the end of the day, people must make up their own minds.
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
Quantum, that was a very informative and descriptive summary that you gave. No doubt that oil additives (friction modifiers) reduce wear and tear inside the engine when added to standard oil but I do have a question, how does it improve fuel economy by doing so? At least I won't need an engine rebuild for a longer time when I use them, But just curious how it improves fuel economy. Does it improve fuel economy by allowing the engine to work less hard?



PS I will be adding lube guard engine oil treatment in my next oil change and will document the results on BUSA
 

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These topics are always clicky lol...

Slick 50 is not popular here and i haven't used it since i left England 20 years ago, i have seen/heard no evidence that anybody who used it had more mileage per engine than anybody who did not... I have rebuilt many a customer automotive engine, ( V8/V6/ Staright's) and have seen no results from additive's helping out (of course you would have to do it from new)...

From my last seminar that i went to 3 month's ago ASE ( Automotive society of Engineer's) announced that they have never proven for it to work. That does not mean they are denouncing it. Through their testing that is unbiased to any oil company and unaffiliated their final review was that of 'No gain'...At this point there are 2 very powerful pursuader's at large, Automotive society of engineer's and Amsoil.

Anyhow, i'm not trying to challenge Quantum, he's a top gun here, i'm just putting my side over which has been like politics in this buissness, it's the opposing side of the debate. lol

My previous posting was wrote by Amsoil, one of the worlds leading oil companies...I merely copied it down.
 

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You never stated if you have a 400 or a 650. In a 400 wouldn't hurt or help. In a 650 sure could hurt the trans area so I wouldn't put any in a 650.
 
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