[Daboo]

Sorry, I couldn't tell you the dimensions. You can get an idea though by looking at this picture from the Gallery. The DP weight is turned so the long end is facing towards you.
http://burgmanusa.com/gallery/Daboo/Clutch/

You can also get an idea of the size difference with this shot of the DP weight sitting on top of the OEM roller.

Gas mileage seems to be about what I would expect for the conditions I'm riding in. We have been hitting some very strong winds recently, and that would make an impact on gas mileage, even if I hadn't changed the weights. I have to admit, I'm having fun twisting the throttle more than before because the response is so quick. So that will have an effect as well.

Regarding gas mileage, I think you can make a couple assumptions since each of us ride in different areas. If you're riding on city streets in stop and go traffic, you weren't getting good gas mileage anyway, and the DP weights won't help you. You'll probably lose a couple mpg even. The reason is that the rpms are a little higher than before.

If you're up at freeway speeds, I think you may find your gas mileage improving. Before with the OEM weights, I would just gradually accelerate. I'm still getting used to this but it seems the best way to accelerate with the DP weights may be to hit the gas more to accelerate quicker to 70 mph, then back off on the throttle. The rpms jump up as you're accelerating, but when I back off the throttle, the rpms drop off considerably and then tend to stay there, even as the grade increases or the winds pick up. So the trick seems to be getting into that "higher" gear quicker, if you want higher gas mileage.

Chris

 

[pcihector]

Daboo... try to make the slidders to downshift. At least on my 400k5, cuising at speed over 40mph, flat roads, a little release of throttle make the RPM to shift down. You will really see a fuel economy. Try different RPM-speed-throttle tests with that. You will get impresed

 

[micbergsma]

How much lower? After the first installation, at 70 mph (indicated), my rpms were at 6800. The OEM rollers were at 6200 rpms. With the last installation, the rpms dropped to 5800 at 70 mph. That's a thousand less than before!


If you look at the design of the Dr. Pulley Sliding weight, you'll see that it has two surfaces (ramps) that the backing plate moves on. I believe that at lower speeds, the backing plate is on the steeper ramp. RPMs are up in a higher range where the available torque and hp are higher and the bike responds very quickly. As the bike's speed increases, the backing plate moves up to the top ramp where the angle is much shallower moving the rpms back into a usable range so you have more top speed. As an example, at 65 mph, my rpms are at 6200. But by increasing to 70 mph, the rpms actually drop to 5800. As I increase speed to 75 mph, the rpms are back at 6200 -- the same rpms as the bike needed to only do 65 mph moments before. I believe that is because the backing plate has moved onto that upper ramp as if you just changed gears.


Chris

hmm... I filmed the mph/rpm with 18g dr pulley sliders and they do same thing what Leo vince 18g rollers can do, I don't really see dps make rpm drop down to 5800 at 70mph and 6200 at 75... I compared the videos with rollers and sliders, they look same :?
I am going to post some videos soon after some errands in the town

 

[micbergsma]

one of videos i posted on youtube.. daboo... let me know if this look about same like on barak.. I want to make sure everything's ok bec I am leaving tomorrow to florida (first to houston for overnight then 14 hours drive on saturday)
[youtube:tfo7rpjy]VgOQe_hBGuk[/youtube:tfo7rpjy]

 

[pcihector]

micbergsma:

Cruising RPMS seems a little high. Did you have a stock rear belt tensioner spring or Dr Pulley weights are the only upgrade installed????

 

[micbergsma]

Everything's stock, I have Leo vince exhaust installed last week, then dr pulley sliders that's all...

 

[pcihector]

Just to be sure, Slider instalation position???

Also, 11,000 miles with stock belt? maybe it is weared/streched. Also, check if you RPMS drops a lot whem release throttle at something like 80mph. If RPMs don't drop a lot, there's a problem with belt. If they drop a lot, there's a problem something else.(sliders position, something sticking, weared parts) This is taking in consideration that mine is an An400 2005. RPM's were lower @ high speeds.

This weekend I would test a custom stopper for the variator to ensure sliders last more than 300 miles on the pre-07 model. I love how they work, but they don't last on our pre-07 400. Is the only model that I install them with durability problems.

 

[Daboo]

one of videos i posted on youtube.. daboo... let me know if this look about same like on barak.. I want to make sure everything's ok bec I am leaving tomorrow to florida (first to houston for overnight then 14 hours drive on saturday

First, good video. As they say, a picture is worth a thousand words. Sorry I couldn't get back to you before your trip. I just got back from the prison Sunday night. (Believe it or not, I do have a life outside of posting on this forum. :lol: )

In looking at the video, I think your results are similar. I noticed as you accelerated, the rpms went up to about 6800 and your speed kept increasing till about 75 indicated. Then they started dropping off and went down to about 6300 before you slowed down to 70 mph and about 6200.

As you are increasing in speed, the rpms will stay higher. Once you get to the speed you want, if you can back off the throttle ever so slightly, the rpms will drop. I'll watch them drop to about 5800 at 70, but if I'm on an upgrade, they will often hit about where you're at with 6200. I don't consider that to be a problem at all. The stock weights operate at 6200 at 70 mph, so if I can operate at the same...or lower in optimum conditions...that's great.

I (and everyone else) are looking forward to hearing about your trip. Keep us posted.

Chris

 

[jeffrey]

While I have not read all of the posts and don't totally understand the variator/clutch, etc. but I was under the impression the 2008 B400 had a different variator/clutch design than previous models and therefore wondering if the Dr. Pulley Sliding Rollers would also work as described on the newer 2008/2009 models? Thank you for your reply/advise! Jeff

 

[Daboo]

The stock variators on all the 07+ Burgman 400s are the same. It is the clutch that is different. The 07 model had two different 3-shoe clutches. The first had problems with jerky takeoffs. Some of the clutch pads were coming off and jamming inside. The later clutch works much better, but has had a high number of "squeals". The squeals range in severity from a chirp to something akin to a car's fan belt screeching.

The 08 changed to a 5-shoe clutch. That clutch can be used as a replacement for the 07 models. No one has found either an 09 Burgman 400, or a parts list to check part numbers to see if anything has changed there.

Chris

 

[jeffrey]

Thanks Chris for your reply. So the gains that he is listing/describing is similar to what I should expect, should I purchase and install the Dr. Pulley Sliding Rollers. He also mentioned that he eventually "filed off the backing plate". What exactly is he talking about? Backing or Back end plate, where is that? Is that recommend, should I do that too? Thanks again for all of your help! Regards, Jeff

 

[Daboo]

Jeffrey, the backing plate is the dark gray plate in the first picture on the first page. In the first picture, you see it installed. In the second picture, you see it off to the upper right of the picture.

Based on Dennis49's recommendations, I did take a file to the edge where the sliders will travel. I didn't take off much at all. It was more like smoothing out a rough fingernail.

FWIW, I put the sliders in twice. The first time, I sprayed some graphite dust in the tracks the sliders would move, hoping that would act as a lubricant. It didn't work well at all; the rpms went up for acceleration...and stayed there. The second time, I bought a can of the dry lubricant spray, as Dennis49 suggested, and that did work extremely well. The rpms went up for the acceleration needs, but then dropped off dramatically when I backed off the throttle.

I see no reason why you shouldn't also get the same results.

Now do I recommend them? Yes. But at 3100 miles (stated in your profile), you have about 20,000+ more miles before you need to change them. So if you change them this early, it is because you want to get the faster acceleration and lower vibration for a reasonable cost.

Chris

 

[jeffrey]

Thanks again Chris, you have really been helpful! So you used (what I will call a conventional file) to file down the backing plate's grove/sides allowing the Dr. Pulley Sliding Rollers to move easier, correct? Should I use a dremel to do this (can't image how you could get a long conventional file in such a narrow spot)? Or, would that be too aggressive? Do you know what "brand" dry spray you purchased? $52 seems very reasonable for such a gain (plus I just like tinkering, that is half the fun!) If you get a chance please reply as to what type of file and dry lube. Again, I gratefully appreciate your advise! Sincerely, Jeff P.S. Adding a AM/FM Stereo and speakers this weekend to my burgie 8)

 

[Daboo]

Here's a copy of the picture from the first post with arrows showing the edge to file.

[attachment=0:f77rqel4]BackingPlate.jpg[/attachment:f77rqel4]

I would highly caution against using a dremel tool. The idea is to just debur the edge that the Dr. Pulley Sliding Weight might touch. I used a thin ordinary file. A Dremel tool can take off a lot of material before you can blink and unless you are extremely careful would also change the shape at the edge.

I bought "CRC Dry Lube" at Shucks Auto. http://www.jamestowndistributors.co...ct.do?pid=13305&familyName=CRC+Dry+Lube+Spray This website looks like it has a good description of the product so you can buy this or something similar.

Chris

 

[jeffrey]

OK, I think I got it now Chris, (thanks for being so patience)! What I am gathering is that you need to remove just enough of the backing plate so as to allow the Dr. Pulley Sliders to "freely" slide up and down without sticking in the inner track (sandwich between the backing plate and the other side; clutch?)... So it is the under belly of the backing plate that you need to just file a tad, again so the new sliders move freely. Please correct me if I am wrong! Thanks Chris! Jeff

 

[Daboo]

File only the edge that the arrows point to. Nothing else needs to be "smoothed" out.

I have a lot of patience. So ask all the questions you need to do the job right.

Chris

 

[jeffrey]

Ok, then what is the benefit of filing just that little edge? It appears from the photo it is just the very outside lip (which I assume touches nothing), so why file that? I had thought (and I guess I am wrong) that you were filing the inside allowing the sliders to move easier since I assume they were larger than the stock, hence you had to file to make more room for them... But does not appear to be the case, you are just filing the very edge... what is the reason for that? Thanks, Chris! P.S. installed the stereo system todays with vidsonix speakers (works execellent). I just wish the weather would cooperate here in Grand rapids, MI. thanks, jeff

 

[Daboo]

If you look at PCIHector's picture, or at the photos I attached in an earlier post, you can see where the weights are resting in a low rpm or stopped state. Centrifugal force moves them outward and pushes the plate and variator pulley apart, hence forcing the belt outward and changing the gear ratio. At the extreme outward position where they can move, they will contact that edge. If you look at Dennis49's post at http://burgmanusa.com/forums/viewto...rp+edges+that+are+causing+excess+drag#p351729 you'll see where he states, "The edges of the metal ramps are so sharp they actually cut groves into the sliders, for that matter they also cut groves in the OEM round weights."

Also, if you look at the pictures he posted on page 4, http://burgmanusa.com/forums/viewto...ooves+that+are+cut+into+an+OEM+weight#p351921 you'll see the grooves that are cut in by the edge he recommends smoothing out.

Dennis49 has done a lot of good research on making these work on the older model 400, and everything he says in that thread can be applied to the newer 400 models.

Chris

 

[Dennis49]

Ok, then what is the benefit of filing just that little edge? It appears from the photo it is just the very outside lip (which I assume touches nothing), so why file that? I had thought (and I guess I am wrong) that you were filing the inside allowing the sliders to move easier since I assume they were larger than the stock, hence you had to file to make more room for them... But does not appear to be the case, you are just filing the very edge... what is the reason for that? Thanks, Chris! P.S. installed the stereo system todays with vidsonix speakers (works execellent). I just wish the weather would cooperate here in Grand rapids, MI. thanks, jeff

Removing this sharp edge is important because the weights travel all the way to the end of the ramps. If you looked at the two posts, the one with the drawing that I did shows how the slider goes under the sharp edge. viewtopic.php?f=3&t=28716&p=351729&hilit=the+edge+of+the+plate+has+sharp+edges+that+are+causing+excess+drag#p351729
The other picture shows the round weight, the lines you see in them are where they two go to the end of the ramps and they are gouged by the sharp edges. viewtopic.php?f=3&t=28716&p=351921&hilit=picture+showing+the+grooves+that+are+cut+into+an+OEM+weight#p351921 If you remove this sharp edge the weights can move to the full out position and not be gouged by the ends of the ramp. If you don’t remove these edges your weights will have a much shorter life. The round weights shown in the picture only had 3,000 miles and they were the original OEM weights. Pcihector said his DPsliders only lasted 300 miles due to these sharp edges.

I have pictures of a set of DPsliders before the edge was removed showing the gouges and I have subsequent pictures showing the DPsliders after the edges were removed and the gouges are no longer there. This proves that removing the edge does correct this problem. I am currently on vacation and I do not have access to the pictures or I could show you the before and after photos of this problem. You don’t want to remove any excess material all you want to accomplish is a smoothing of the sharp edges. This will in no way affect the performance of your scooter. My top speed before removing these edges was 95mph after removing edges I have exceeded 100 mph. The reason the top end was increased is as the sliders reached this area they were not capable of traveling passed this edge without turning slightly not allowing the DPslider to operate as designed. After the edges were removed the sliders moved past this point without binding and turning slightly. This allowed the variator to close further because the thicker area of the sliders are now traveling past this area, which in turn gave more top speed.

Removing these edges only takes a few minutes and the time is well worth the effort. The key is to make the radius of these edges as big as possible. If you are using a file it is not very likely you can remove to much material because this is pretty hard metal. You would have to remove at least 1/8” or more to make any difference in performance and I doubt that you would ever file this much.

I would like to add this is not an unproven theory I have picture and top speed videos to prove the outcome of this simple mod.

Dennis

 

[jasperjj]

The stock variators on all the 07+ Burgman 400s are the same. It is the clutch that is different. The 07 model had two different 3-shoe clutches. The first had problems with jerky takeoffs. Some of the clutch pads were coming off and jamming inside. The later clutch works much better, but has had a high number of "squeals". The squeals range in severity from a chirp to something akin to a car's fan belt screeching.

The 08 changed to a 5-shoe clutch. That clutch can be used as a replacement for the 07 models. No one has found either an 09 Burgman 400, or a parts list to check part numbers to see if anything has changed there.

Chris

HI, is there anyone know why Suzuki will switch the clutch from 5 pcs to 3 pcs and again to 5 pcs, and what's the weight of 2008 clutch assy & clutch shoe?

clutch model: clutch shoe/weight ( pcs/gram ) : weight of clutch assy
1)2006 model: 5pcs/240gram:1829gm
2)2007 model: 3pcs/232gram:1248gram
3)2008 model: 5pcs/??? gram :???? gram