[Chappy]

I know this is a wore out topic but: i'm a bit confused with all the talk about the sliders flipping and flopping etc. I just googled Dr. Pulley, and they also have ROLLERS in different weights.

I do want to lower my RPM for interstate riding, but I don't want the hassle of having to keep removing the cover to play with the sliders.

Which way should I go men?

 

[InfernoST]

I had the sliders in my 08 400 and never had a problem with them flipping.

IMHO I would suspect the flipping of the sliders happened when they were installed.

 

[Liamjs]

I've read several posts about flipping sliders. My buddy just put rollers in his because a couple had flipped in his. My understanding is that they've recently been rework with a small tab that keeps them from flipping.

Never the less, I keep mine stock with rollers. According to Quantum, the engine is quite capable of running at speed, so no need to worry about damage. My bike has nearly 40k and the engine runs great. I expect another 40k out of it at least.

 

[Bolzen]

People who keep original rollers either:

1. Never ever tried the SR.
2. Had an unfortunate experience with flipping 'em over.

 

[Liamjs]

People who keep original rollers either:

1. Never ever tried the SR.
2. Had an unfortunate experience with flipping 'em over.

I've tried my friends 400 with sliders and wasn't impressed. The CVT mapping was all wrong. I did NOT like the low rpm on the freeway, Felt like there was no throttle response when I needed it. It just kinda bogged. If there is one time I really want a quick response, its on the freeway.

Its a matter of rider preference. Just because you love it, don't assume all others will too.

The 400 is a well balanced bike. When you change one thing, something else gets affected. Bigger screen means more protection, great. but also lower top speed and mileage, etc.

If I seem to dissuade anyone from modifications, it because I've seen the opposite side of it. Where the rider, trying to reach perfection for themselves, fixes the bike till its broke. So many mods and changes the bike doesn't perform well at all. No one points that out to members seeking advice on this mod or the other. The gestalt of the bike is more than sum of its parts.

What can I say. Except for a creature comfort or two, I love my 400 just the way she came.

 

[Bolzen]

Don't know exactly what are you talking about. What was the sliders' weight with your friend. 18 g accelerates scoot like *** on the freeway. I really doubt standard rollers would be even close to that beast behavior.

I had OEM during 4000 miles of primary run in period, but the only advantage i see is the ability to use revs in the higher red zone which i'm not a huge fan of.

The CVT mapping was all wrong

What could be wrong is roller weight imo.

 

[Desert Rat]

I put 35k+ miles on my 07 400 with the Dr. Pulley sliders in mine & never had them turn over. I tried 18g & 21g 18g were the ones I stuck with.

 

[Chappy]

Thanks men, all good replies on both sides the fence...I'm on both sides the fence and i know it's something i should just try out of curiosity, but general rule of thumb i side with OEM deign for most things...Anyhow, it's something to chew over, over coffee.

 

[Chappy]

Thanks fellows...after doing lots of thinking and researching, i have decided to leave the roller in as OEM spec. I do need believe i need those rev's for the 80-90 mph moments.

 

[qaz]

I was intrigued about the popularity of the sliders, so decided to do a 3000 mile experiment. I did not use my Burg 400 because horsepower can smooth problems over. I used my modified 50 2T because I could afford to buy multiple parts and it is easy to change them out. The nice thing about the 50 is, what may go unnoticed on the 400, will really show up on the 50.

Here is what I found: Sliders really smooth out power delivery.

They don't give a lower gearing for takeoff- gram for gram.

They don't push the belt higher on the pulley, they just push the belt up sooner. This gives the lower rpm's at highway speeds.

Sliders do not react to changes in variator speeds as well as rollers and where it really shows is on hills. Hills where the rollers would pull 30mph, the sliders would drop back to 25. Hillls where I normally climbed them at 15mph from a standing start, I could only achieve 10mph.

The top speed was reduced by 5mph with the sliders. It seems to hit a wall at 35mph on the flats and down hill, where the rollers will allow a top speed of 40mph and bury the speedo (45+) on a down hill section. I have not figured out what cause the governing effect, but I know the engine is not the problem because of the almost 50mph with the rollers.

The change that makes the biggest difference is the belt width. The two belts were a millimeter and a half difference in width.

I also made changes to clutch engagement.

I only changed one variable at a time so I could record the effect of that change. This was not a seat of the pants, I think the performance is better, so it is. This is by the numbers, what I found out. For all around performance, acceleration, top end speed and power, rollers perform better. Sliders give a smoother transition of power and lower cruising revs, but reduced top speed. I don't think that the sliders react any differently in the 400. The 400 just does a better job masking the short comings that show up in the 50 2T.
These are my findings and my stop watch, speedo, GPS, ect... and are probably not as finely tune as most peoples seat of the pants, but I will stick to them.

 

[Chappy]

Thanks Gaz, that was a pretty thorough explanation and testing you did.

 

[Bolzen]

They don't give a lower gearing for takeoff- gram for gram.

They don't push the belt higher on the pulley, they just push the belt up sooner. This gives the lower rpm's at highway speeds.

This is absolutely untrue however, and you can easily find out that by marks on the sliders and plate edge that they push the movable variator part farther than rollers where the gear-ratio is lower. Same with the high ratio part.

 

[Chatman128]

Take off gearing is going to be determined by the driven pulley and how far the belt is pushed up by the torque sensing spring. High speed gearing is going to be limited by close the rpm sensing apparatus (sliders or rollers) can push the movable plate in the variator. These two endpoints are relatively fixed and determined by belt wear, variator wear, driven plate wear and whether you have sliders or rollers.

I had a pretty worn variator and belt that at registered 8500 rpm at 80 mph indicated (about 72 mph true). This was with sliders. With rollers, the rpm's were about 6-700 higher for a given indicated speed. Replacing these the variator plates and the belt immediately returned the expected 6800 rpm at 80 mph indicated.

Pretty much, the sliders (or rollers) will determine the rpm at which your gearing will transition. I have 20gm sliders and it occurs about 5200 rpm. With 18gm sliders I would expect that to be more around 57-5800 rpm. I find that if I'm cruising along at 60mph and want to accelerate, the rpm will jump about 1000 rpm.

This on a 400. YMMV

 

[Chappy]

So are you a slider fan chatman?

 

[Chatman128]

I somewhat prefer sliders. Not for any performance related reason. I don't see any real improvement in performance. I do have a sense that things are smoother with sliders but it is so subtle that I could be fooling myself. I can state definitively that before I did my 40K maintenance, I was getting, at best 59 mpg (calculated over about 5K miles). After replacing the variator plates and belt I'm back to 65 mpg. I'm pretty sure the difference is due to the change in rpm at cruise.

I gotta say, performance with the worn variator was pretty impressive. When accelerating, I would routinely have the engine wound up to 6.5K as I was accelerating from 30 to 60 mph. The Burg was noticeably quicker from the initial pause up through 60 mph. The down side was that the transmission was very not smooth, gas mileage was off about 10%, cruising at 40-45 mph felt very 'surgy'. I couldn't get the scooter to settle in at a single speed, it would want to creep around. This last behavior was caused by the variator plates having a significant concave characteristic which must have caused some nonlinear behavior in the CVT function.

So to answer the question... no I am not a huge slider fan but I have kept them for 40K miles and would probably replace them with new when they are worn out. If they didn't exist or I have a hard time sourcing them, I would find the scooter perfectly acceptable with rollers.

 

[Jeff_MdR]

As I approach 15k miles on my '08, I've been going over the sliders vs. rollers debate. I think I'm going to stick with rollers: While I'd like to be quicker off the line, current acceleration is just fine; while I'd like lower rpm's while cruising at highway speeds (for better gas mileage) I like the current performance characteristics. If I logged a lot more highway miles, I might have a different opinion. I guess the crux of the matter is 'is there any advantage in choosing sliders that most closely mimics OEM rollers?'

I expect my belt has some life left, but I'm going to replace it anyway. My preference is to enjoy the (expected) improved performance now, rather than to defer the expense for another year.

I never considered the variator plates a 'consumable' item - at 15k, I wouldn't think they'd be an issue, but I will definitely take a look.

 

[Chappy]

Thanks men, great input...I say; How long does the variator's last. I pulled my cover at 15k for a peek and saw some wear grooves on the highest level, as i do mostly interstate and hwy.

Belt measured out great, just wondering if a new belt is needed here in the next 10k or so if i have to address the variator...If so...What brand??

 

[qaz]

This is absolutely untrue however, and you can easily find out that by marks on the sliders and plate edge that they push the movable variator part farther than rollers where the gear-ratio is lower. Same with the high ratio part.

I did mark the variator, and I also marked and measured the lowest possible place the belt could possibly ride and the highest point possible. It did not make a difference if it was a slider or roller. If when putting in either the rollers or sliders, the back plate bottoms out in the variator, then they both start with the belt at the same place (low end). Once the variator front plate and back come together, the belt can ride no higher, both rollers and sliders do this. Which one does it first is the one that turns fewer RPM's.

 

[Chatman128]

Chappy,

In th einterest of full disclosure... I really should take credit for the demise of my variator. I, inadvisedly, put some grease on the splines of the crankshaft last time I was in the transmission. I'm pretty sure some of this migrated to the variator surface and eventually lead to the wear I experienced. Mine was pretty extreme and was easily detectable without visual inspection. If you keep an eye on your speed vs rpm you will notice a slight increase in rpm as the belt wears. New belts reurn you to what is your normal baseline. As the variator plates wear, you will notice that a new belt does not drop the rpm as low until, eventually, you will get to where I was. My last new belt brought the rpm at 65 mph to 6K. I would normally have expected it to be 5.5K. By the time I was ready to replace this last belt I was running 8500 rpm @ 80 mph. All speeds are indicated, not true.

In my case, I needed new variator plates @ 40K. I don't think there is a specified life for the variator. It just gets replaced PRN.

Things you can do to extend your variator's life: DON'T GREASE THE SPLINES. when you change the belt, you should probably clean the variator plate faces to remove any belt residue that may have built up. This will have the added benefit of prolonging the life of your new belt as well.

 

[Chatman128]

both rollers and sliders do this. Which one does it first is the one that turns fewer RPM's.

There must more in play than just this. Otherwise, there should a speed beyond which rollers and sliders would exhibit the same rpm. I've never seen it and the rpm reduction occurs with sliders that are 5-8% lighter than the factory rollers.