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Still trying to decide between SW or Burg, ultimatly will come down to $$, miles on bike, miles to bike :tongue: .

While looking at some of the newer scoots, + my dads SW has ABS. Is this really something to sway the decision of to buy or not to buy :?: I've been on 2 wheels since I was 5, now +30 :shock: Point is I'm comfortable with my riding skills never having had ABD on 2 wheels. However I don't think I'll ever be with out when inside the 4 wheeled "death cart".
 

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The non-abs triple disks are very very good.

I've never had ABS. (Tho I have checked it out in a few rental cars...) but, IMO it's along the same vien as "traction control." If you haven't driven in snow, and you have a clumsy don't-keep-it-rolling-on-off-gass-foot" well then, i guess traction control would do you good in snowy situations. ABS? I dunno really. It seems that it would be nice to have on surfaces that you "readily can't read" and it's a "very fast turning sort of a stop" - but to me, I like slant six 3 speed dodges with drum brakes and all the weird things that go with 'em. Learning the envelope of your conveyeance is, I believe, more important than anything else. So, if you have a 75 Plymouth Valient that likes to lock up the right rear tire when its brand new, well - you should find that out before you find that out. 8)

I don't really care for full time anything type "assists." I prefer to have the option of turning that stuff on or off at my pleasure.

If you've had 25 years of bike riding experience and you know "how" to grab a fist full of disk(s) brake, then - I say bla. Who needs it? I wasn't all that "enamoured" with my 650's binders at first. They were (and still seem to be) a bit "hollow" - but that isn't to say that they don't stop you. They will, for darn sure, and, in a BIG hurry. I am just a brake snob. I got my learners permit in a Peugeot 504 with 4 wheel disks. Brake "feel" means a lot to me. My Moonpie has better brakes than any other bike I've ridden, it's just that it does weigh 600 pounds and I can feel that when I find myself pulling harder on the levers than I think I should be.

Just Pete.

Just my opine.
 

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Old school here as well. None of my vehicles have ABS, and my kids got their drivers licence with vehicles that had "Manual Transmission' and "No ABS" (Terrible isn't it). Well the kids (1-30 & 1-27) have vehicles that have manual Transmission. They seem to read the road, so to speak RE braking. Maybe their lucky, but they haven't had any accidents due to over driving.
Don't get me wrong, there are times in a panic situation, I think ABS is great, just not required.
 

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If I could find a 400cc machine with abs I would buy it, no matter the brand. I believe in abs because it gives you control while stopping in less than ideal conditions. Some very skilled riders may be able to stop in a shorter distance with a non abs bike in a dead straight line in good conditions, but most average bikers would benefit greatly from abs. I am not saying the SilverWing is a better machine than the Burgman or vice-versa I'm just saying that I like abs. Do a Google search and you will find a wealth of info both pro and con that should help you decide if you need it or not.
(My guess is if you don't know if you need it, then you do need it, but I'm a safety junkie - don't get me started on what to wear :protest: )
 

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I've owned 17 motorcycles and several scooters. The brakes on the Burgman 650 rank right up there with the best.

No - I've never had ABS on a two wheeled vehicle. I am not all that happy when ABS kicks in on my car either. I would take the big dual front disks on the Burgman 650 over the single front disk on the Silverwing any day. ABS is not going to make up for the difference in stopping power.

A lot of newer riders, and also younger riders, are big fans of the ABS concept. I don't really argue it with them. But I've ridden about 250,000 road miles on two wheels and never once wished that I had it. There have been several times though when ABS scared the heck out of me with my Ford Taurus cars. I can tell you for sure that Ford's computer circuits are not as good at modulating brakes as I am, and I do not appreciate it when they reduce me to standing on the brake pedal while they take over and lazily pump the brakes. There are undoubtedly better ABS systems, but I'm not all that anxious to try them.
 

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My BMW had ABS , I think it is a good system, in 3 years of riding I relayed on it zero times. Never had it kick in -in an emergency-
I think of it like most of the other items I use while riding, my helmet, jacket, boots, I hope I never have to use them but there there if I do. Would I go out and get 400 w/ ABS (if I could) no, and for about the same reason I don't wear a full face helmet, leather jacket, motorcycle boots, ( 3/4 helmet regular jacket & boots) I carry as much protection as I think I need . I don't think I need ABS, or an inflatable vest either
And of course all that's left is to hope I'm right. . :)
 

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I've had ABS save my butt a couple times. Once when I was riding too fast at night on a mountain road and the road suddenly turned. It was nice to be able to slam on the anchors as hard as I could and not worry about locking 'em up. The other time a taxi suddenly pulled out in front of me on a rainy day in heavy traffic. Again, I could grab a handful without thinking about it. I almost never use it, but it gives me more confidence in my riding knowing it's there -- like my helmet.

Consider ABS to be like fire insurance policy on your home. You hopefully won't ever use the coverage but it's there if you need it. Whether it's worth getting the SW over the Burger is purely an individual call. I had to make the same choice, and ended up with a BMW RT :oops: Sure is a shame Suzuki just doesn't offer the Exec in the US.

Here is some good reading on ABS versus non-ABS.

Magazine does a variety of braking tests with ABS/non-ABS bikes ridden by experts and novices alike.
http://www.ibmwr.org/prodreview/abstests.html

Test pitting normal riders on ABS bikes versus racers on non-ABS bikes:
http://jw4u.com/vehicles/automobile/abs/realtest.htm

Why police think they should have ABS bikes:
http://www.policeone.com/police-product ... les/85903/

Interesting info on Honda.
All Motorcycles to Have ABS (Anti-Lock Brakes)?
Jan. 24, 2005 - This week's Bike magazine (UK) has an interesting article about ABS brakes on motorcycles. Apparently, the Honda Fireblade will have ABS by 2007. If Honda breaks the ice in the sportbike sector by adding ABS, will the competition be far behind? ABS is currently associated with touring bikes ridden by, uh, mature riders. Will sportbikers go for it? Maybe if they see it on race bikes also.

Most tests of motorcycle braking with and without ABS prove that ABS will definitely shorten the stopping distances, even for experienced riders. This makes it easy to justify as a necessary street bike accessory, although racers may do without for some time to come.
 

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There is no replacement for intelligent and defensive riding, ABS isn't going to save your behind.
I live in a part of the country where ABS is pretty much standard on cars and I figure that mine goes off at least once a week from December to febuary but then I drive on snow and ice for those months.
ABS is not going to shorten your stopping distance but it is to allow you to steer in certain situations. A locked up wheel , bike or car, is going straight no matter how you turn the wheel. The ABS pulses the brake(s) to allow the wheel to turn and give you some form of steering.
I don't think that I would buy a car, considering where I live and the ice conditions I get for a third of the year, without ABS. As to my Burgman, I don't think it would be a deal maker. If I have everything clamped on and I am hanging on for dear life I don't think that I really want ABS stretching out my distance since in that kind of situation turning isn't going to be a real option. As to getting caught out in the wet or ice, I guess there is an argument for that but again I should have brains enough to take the conditions into account.

Just my nickels worth!
 

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pauljo said:
I've owned 17 motorcycles and several scooters. The brakes on the Burgman 650 rank right up there with the best.

No - I've never had ABS on a two wheeled vehicle. I am not all that happy when ABS kicks in on my car either. I would take the big dual front disks on the Burgman 650 over the single front disk on the Silverwing any day. ABS is not going to make up for the difference in stopping power.

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I 2nd that Pauljo
I donot like the ABS brake system on my 95 chev pickup or on our 95 chev car. Like you they've scared the hell out of me a time or two.
 

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My last bike was a '04 ST1100 with integrated ABS brakes. The integrated brakes were wonderful but, in the 2 years I had it, I never once had the ABS activate. That said, I did like the feeling of having it available should I ever need it. I would not choose a bike model because of ABS but it it was there I would like it. There's no substitute, mechanical or otherwise, for defensive driving and never getting into a situation where ABS would save the day.
 

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I agree with Pauljo and swstiles up to a point.
That point being the ABS systems on North American cages are not very good.

Paul said once that his Ford ABS scares the heck out of him, he can pulse his foot faster.
Swstiles said his Chevy ABS scares him too.
The NA cars don't have very good ABS systems as a rule, they only do lip service to the concept.

The Japanese built ABS systems on my cages pulse over 10 times per second and are very effective, light years ahead of many cage builders.
Nobody can pulse their foot that fast!
(Unless maybe they're listening to Beau Soleil!) :lol:

I am assuming from what I have been reading here and there, that the Burg Japanese ABS sytem is of equal quality.
That being said, I hope I never hear it kick in either on my Burg. :wink:

The only time my cages ever disclose that they have ABS is occasionally in the winter in really dicey conditions.
I use my head, and rarely get in a position where I need it, but it's nice to know it's there when I do. (Saved my bacon once for sure.)

I think on the burg, the only time I would need it, would be panic stops in the rain, or maybe on oil or loose gravel or something.
Peace of mind, maybe even save my life some day.
No reason not to have it.
It does no harm, except maybe to my wallet. :wink:

I think ABS should be standard on all road bikes. (it will be on all Hondas over 250cc, not just the Fireblade, by 2007).
Can't wait for the day when it's sophisticated enough to handle braking while leaning too.

It's true, under ideal conditions, an experienced rider under controlled conditions can maybe outperform an ABS equipped bike while stopping, but for the majority of us, (who may or may not, be really experienced), in a panic situation (read NOT controlled conditions), it makes a lot of sense.

Could just be that extra little safety margin that keeps us upright and out of the emergency room.
 

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I think Rick hit it on the nose. If I had a choice, I'd take a bike with ABS. I've seen several demos by BMW at rallies (with experienced riders on the bikes) and there's no comparison of the braking control on slick surfaces.
Don
 

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I am old school with 25 years riding and I ride a Executive 650 with ABS, I still ride exactly the same in the rain i.e carefully, I do think it is a good backup 'Just in case'
People say they have never felt the ABS come on, well I tested the 650's ABS on a quiet back road in the rain, I rode along at about 20mph, and slammed the rear brake on full, it stopped..... no skid or anything to tell the rider that the ABS had operated. I do not know how good the rear brake is on the standard 650, but I would have thought it would lock up on a wet road.....
I then did a full emergency stop both brakes at about 20 mph and again it stopped very fast without incident, so I think it works quite well, and I will have ABS on future bikes if it is available.

Andy
 

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pauljo said:
I've owned 17 motorcycles and several scooters. The brakes on the Burgman 650 rank right up there with the best. <snip>
But I've ridden about 250,000 road miles on two wheels and never once wished that I had it.
Agreed. Though the burgman does not brake anywhere as nicely as my WRX, it is much better than other bikes I had. :)
When I had to brake hard on a bike, I usually had bigger problems than worrying about the ABS. Don't know if it would give me a false sense of security if I had ABS, but in either case I just read my roads waaaaay ahead.
 

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I dont like ABS on motorcycles. On 4 wheels I can see taking the no-brainer path and letting the ABS unit modulate the brakes for me - but on 2 wheels I want to control it (I don't really know why - I've just never liked the feel of it). I also don't like linked brakes. I know the feeling coming from my front and rear brakes, and I want to control how much each end of my bike is braking. Linked brakes also give less feedback and have more "mush", because there are more rubber hoses. I love the feeling I get from steel braided brake lines too - but some people say they make it too harsh, too much feedback... I think it should be up to what you want. :)
 

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Robert said:
I dont like ABS on motorcycles. :)
I've never experienced ABS on a motorcycle. I didn't think I'd like it on a car, but now have it on both cars, and I must admit, it works. I do wonder if it might give me more confidence than might be prudent (I'm seldom prudent when I ride anyway :wink: ). There are very few road situations I can think of where it might be necessary. Black ice or sand on the road is gonna getcha regardless. On gravel it might come in handy sometimes, but there are also times when I want to skid the rear tire.

Did you happen to see 'The Long Way Round'? It would bother me if the ABS malfunctioned and left me completely without brakes - wouldn't it you?

Steve
 

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wasions said:
It would bother me if the ABS malfunctioned and left me completely without brakes - wouldn't it you?
Can't you make do with just engine braking??? :roll: :lol:
 

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I didn't like the ABS on my truck either until I had to do a panic stop with 2 wheels on the pavement and 2 wheels off. It controlled the stop for me and kept the truck straight. But under most conditions it modulated the brakes too soon and I didn't like it.
I can't see a 2 wheeled vehicle having the situation of the 2 wheels on different surfaces, so I can't apply the one time I was glad I had it in my truck to 2 wheeled use. Maybe having one tire deflating while braking or something? But then if I have a blowout on the front tire and it locks up - then I want to lock up my rear tire to match it. Hmm, maybe ABS only on the front wheel, but then I really just don't want it. I'll keep the extra money, and let them keep the ABS.
 

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In my first reply I spoke of "surfaces you readily can't read and fast turning sort of stops.." that also means - fast turns that you're just going too **** fast into - the kind that have a radius that contracts.

Back in 86, I was driving back from China Peak (called Sierra Summit now) late one Sunday after a great weekend of skiing. I didn't leave the chalet till almost all others had hit the road. I didnt want to be stuck in the "herd." There I was, smack in the middle of the Sierra Nevada mountain range, going waaaay to fast for the conditions in my newish Suzuki Swift (uh, Chevy Sprint.) Hey - a few after ski hot toddies and all of a sudden, at 26yo, I'm invinsable. A virtual Rally Car Racer. (Yeah - right...) Oh baby - I am stylin....white driving lights, skis on the roof rack, a snick-snick (sort of) 5 speed shifter in my greasy lil hand. Yup -making goood time! Those dark mountain roads, a few hot wines, a case of dumb ass, and all of a sudden I am almost out of road with plenty of asphalt (literally - ass - me - fault - me) - I barely gathered it up that one dark cold winter night over there on that dark mountain road. My brakes had already been pumped - to the tune of lock on lock off type pump. Maybe if I'da had ABS that night I wouldn't (now) have thought about how dangerous over driving slash over-seeing (anything) can be, but now I know. I drive with my eyes as far ahead as I can but when it's night time your ability to do that negated. ABS is a great thing. It should be for everyone. I just think that we should be able to turn it off or on.
 

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Pete said:
snipped ABS is a great thing. It should be for everyone. I just think that we should be able to turn it off or on.
Pete, it already is off.

Until we really need it........., then it comes on :wink:
Think about it. 8)
 
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