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Just darksided my 2008 400 which has a towpac on it. Any idea of what tire pressure I should use?

TIA
 

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darkside tire pressure

I would and do use the maximum cold pressure allowed as shown on the sidewall of the tire, it still gives a smooth comfortable ride. I don't have the tow-pac but have driven one a friend of mine had, it just had the stock tire on it which was getting close to the cords in the center of the tire after only 4000 miles or so. I run maximum cold pressure in my darkside tires on both my Burgman 650 ond my Honda Goldwing GL1800, the 650 has about 20000 miles on it and looks practically new, should last anothe 20000 easy. On the tow-pac installations the rear tire seems to wear much faster than normal, I have no idea why unless they they have been run severely under inflated.
Later, Jim
 

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I would and do use the maximum cold pressure allowed as shown on the sidewall of the tire, it still gives a smooth comfortable ride.
Later, Jim
+1. I too run the max recommended cold pressure. 44 psi in mine.
 

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What brand and size car tire are guys using? I used a Yokohama 145-12 on my Honda Reflex. No modification needed. Would like to get away with the same thing on my 07 Burgman 400.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Doc, after much research and querying (is that a word) I ended up using a 155/70/13. Took a lot of psi to get the beads to seat. Fortunately my son has a great compressor and did it for me.
 

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Just got my tire in.

As far as I can tell, you will not have much DarkSide effect as in other bigger bikes... This car tire actually looks skinnier than the M/C Tire!



This tire:
Delticom North America
Business unit www.tires-easy.com

Item Number: R-170600
Products: Achilles Platinum 7 155/70R13 75H BSW (AS)
Quantity: 1
Unit Price before tax: $ 32.30
-----------------------------------------
Total before tax: $ 32.30
shipping before tax: $ 14.94
-----------------------------------------
Total before tax: $ 47.24
0 % Sales Tax $ 0.00
-----------------------------------------
Total: $ 47.24

Now just waiting on the muffler gasket to get here before starting the job. I have a new rotor and set of pads, might as well put on since it's all right there.

My FJR on the DarkSide:



Darksiding a big bike like the FJR has a very drastic effect in it's feeling, yet I have scraped the pegs with it on a MSF course, and it doesn't degrade the cornability at all, it just take a lot more "umph" to get to lean over. By the way, that tire has 48,000 miles on it.
 

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What do you mean by "darkside'? Is it safe to use car tires on the burg?
No, it's not safe,

"Darkside" means we know it's safe and we don't care that you don't. The darkside is where all the cool kids are. Come to the darkside.

Google Darkside Motorcycle.


I've gone much steeper on my FJR with a "car tire" than this guy did.
 

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Funny Post (above) :p --- I love it. :laughing9:

Another web site I use has a symbol for funny post that points an arrow up to the last post. Need one here.

2011 Burgman 400 -- I use the Achilles (sp) bought at www.Tireeasy.com and run 37 PSI range (about 9000 miles so far). I think around 20000 will be the maximuim. (we shall see)
 

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I run 32 psi on the GL1800 Michelin Alpin. Hardly know it's back there. When the tire on my new to me 2012 Exec wears out I will most likely go to the scooter Darkside also.
 

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A car tyre compromises geometry and handling and is more susceptable to high speed instability.

Some say that is ok and safe, some say not. All manufacturers, developers and analysts say not.

Pressure
Most darksiders will recommend higher or maximum pressures.
From a dynamics point of view this is because a tyre is part of the suspension and they are designed together as a unit. Motorcycle tyres are fairly rigid and resist side forces - because when you are lean over bumps act sideways to the wheel. Car tyre structure/behaviour works differently (to keep the tread flat on the ground for a car)
High pressure will mask the soft mushy ride to some extent but it isn't the way a pro rubber wrangler uses pressure.
Higher pressure will make a tyre run too cold - low pressure make it run too hot.

Handling
A car tyre messes up the geometry designed in the suspension. Under normal riding the bike will tend to be less eager to turn/lean and will require counterstear input to fight the geometry error.
When leaning hard in a turn, the tyre to road contact reduces with a car tyre and increases with a bike tyre.

High speed stability
Car tyres tend to increase the chance of a wobble/tank slapper developing (even a wider bike tyre will tend to do it) i.e. less forgiving of worn stearing or upsets from minor side impacts.

Most of the time you will get away with it with little more than weird handling
In an emergency you might benefit from the increased handling envelope and stability of a bike tyre.

Car tyres will last longer - partly because they grip in a different way. Tyres go from round to straight in contact with the ground. Bike tyres have longer contact patches and they have to deform more. This scrunches them against that surface and grab it. The edges of the contact patch scrub more against the road as this happens.

Straight line grip is usually about the same for both. Low speed stability is better (wider base)
 

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Well Blue Bottle, have you ever tried a car tire on a bike or are you just a member of the Flat Earth Society? Sorry, but I am writing from experience, not theory. But thanks for sharing your expertise with us.
 

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No, it's not safe,

"Darkside" means we know it's safe and we don't care that you don't. The darkside is where all the cool kids are. Come to the darkside.

Google Darkside Motorcycle.

Darkside tire on the highway - YouTube

I've gone much steeper on my FJR with a "car tire" than this guy did.
Looks like pretty good contact. Still, not for me. Enjoy the ride. Be honest. Be kind.
 

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Well Blue Bottle, have you ever tried a car tire on a bike or are you just a member of the Flat Earth Society? Sorry, but I am writing from experience, not theory. But thanks for sharing your expertise with us.
I analyse vehicle dynamics professionally for a living. The results of my work are used by manufacturers and military and as training/education
but yes, I've rolled them along the road personally too.


I've carried out scientific research with road going vehicles, aircraft, component test rig; I receive test results from manufacturers, research facilities, tribologists, R&D departments, track testing, crash testing etc. etc.
I've tested personally and I've employed teams to carry out testing for me, I've dragged and fired countless contraptions down roads and through the air, worked for companies everybody knows by name and on machines the public isn't allowed to heard about yet.
Often putting the same vehicle/component through exactly the same event thousands of times with just one minuscule change for days on end (or pushing them until they let go). Done it as a consultant, done as a designer, done on vehicles I've built from scratch myself, won awards for doing it.

Measured with sheet lasers, microscopes, temp gauges, pressure gauges and things I don't even know the name of.

I don't know why you guys always want to make it personal, but yes, I've got a bit of experience with this. :nerd
 

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Probably have 44,000 on Car Tire (rear of Burgman 400). Liked it. Remember when I first put one on -- seemed like I might have been one of the first people to do that on a Burgman 400 (I had previously used Car Tire on my Burgman 650).

That said developed a sudden Wobble (EXTREME WOBBLE - Hold Handle Bars Steady and whole Scooter Shaking).

BY THE WAY all this Wobble Investigation is Posted by me under another topic.

Investigated and finally replaced a pretty well worn out rear tire (Car Tire) as part of the investigation. Pretty well worn means I might have rode it another 1000 or 2000 miles had I not been investigating the wobble.

Discovered after removal of the tire that it had a raised area on one side of bottom tread that ran about 12 or so inches along the circumference. Anyway, replacing the tire corrected the wobble. Suspect a sudden belt separation on the tire.

I Tried and Tried and Tried to put another Car Tire on the rear (cause I like the ride and feel more secure with the Car Tire and obviously 20K miles is better than say 6K miles on a MC tire).

PROBLEM: I could not get the new Car Tire to seat (same brand and size and model as used beforte Achilles Premium). Had went as high as a little over 100 PSI trying to seat, finally damaged the bead on the tire where it refused to go over the rim edge of the wheel. The tire bead had two spots damaged like in tore a bit (the two spots separated by say 10 inches where the area between would not seat).

So, I gave up and went back to a SHINKO MC Tire. That fixed the wobble. Scooter rides OK, but like I said - I felt better on the Car Tire (guess I got use to that feel).

Also, had an incident soon after replacing the tire (installing the MC Tire). It was crazy, nothing like that in my 347,000 miles of two wheeling (miles calculated last Dec, 2016). The road was wet (not deep wet - just more like damp wet). I was at a stop sign on a slight uphill slope and waiting to turn right (90 degree).

Took off like normal as far as I know (it ain't a 100 HP pop the clutch Machine) and next thing I know I was in a ditch next to the road I just turned on. Had Handle Bars slapping back and forth like a full wobble. Went I guess about 30 feet and finally got settled and rode out of the ditch.

Beats me as to what happened??? The Scoot seems very wobble free (get some slight if turn loose of handle bars at some slow speeds - had that for years and also on a NINJA 500). My guess is rear slid to my left when I took off and got me headed for the ditch (fortunately, a wide grassy ditch - not many are around here). Why the Wobble then -- I don't know.

PS: I question how stable a MC tire that is so rounded is when you are maneuvering or say stopping like on wet pavement. I just always felt the Car Tire was more stable -- Flat on the road during stops and seems to hold good on leans (if anything wants to straighten up).

That said, don't think I would want to drag knee race a Car Tire on the rear (cause not a car tire made as soft as a race tire).
 

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PROBLEM: I could not get the new Car Tire to seat ...went as high as a little over 100 PSI trying to seat, finally damaged the bead on the tire....

PS: I question how stable a MC tire that is so rounded is when you are maneuvering or say stopping like on wet pavement. I just always felt the Car Tire was more stable -- Flat on the road during stops and seems to hold good on leans (if anything wants to straighten up).
Pressure
Using high pressure to seat tyres is dangerous. It is enough to put metal shards straight through your skull, blind, maim and kill.

difficulty seating
It is intentionally made this way to stop you doing it.
Regulations were brought in to separate the profile spec of car/bike rim profiles to refuse the colossal accident rate as motorcycles became more powerful decades ago.

Stability
"Static stability" is different to " dynamic stability", self stearing and wanting to stand up.
As I said above, a car tyre has better low speed stability. It has a wider base so it's a bit easier to push around or cross ice.
This does not give it "dynamic stability" or "steady state stability".
Imagine a trailer behind a car. This has lots of static stability, its huge base means it can't fall over. But at speed we all know that trailers can oscillate at speed and even overturn the vehicle - the same wide base becomes a problem, it isn't dynamically stable at high speed.

"Self stearing" is a product of the bikes geometry. It self corrects to maintain its upright or steady state condition. A car tyre upsets the geometry design and adds a side component. One symptom of this is that forces make the bike Doesn't want to follow the commanded path and wants to return upright so you wind up arguing with it to keep it balanced and on track.
 

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I run 38 psi on my darkside tire on my 650. To me its more about how it rides at different pressures. Try a few different ones & see which you like the best.
 
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