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Discussion Starter #1
My wife and I have two 650 Burgmans. My bikes are Canadian AN650K9 Execs. I service them. I rolled 25,000 miles this summer and she is not far behind, time to tear down the bikes for the scheduled overhaul. I ordered some new CVT bolts, spooked by all the discussion of their frangibility.

On each bolt, there is minor wear. In each case there is a small chunk eroded from the tip of the bolt, maybe 2x2 mm and .025mm deep. I replaced them because I had new ones on hand, bit otherwise would have put them back and not worried about them for a while, check again in 10,000 miles.

It surprises me how often this point of failure, the stopper bolt, comes up when the Burgman is discussed. Yes, a new CVT is ghastly expensive, but just how often does that happen, that a failure of this bolt causes the CVT to self-destruct?

To my mind, as owner of two 2009 650, there are other issues more worthy of concern. The 2009 Burgman 400s were recalled to replace the POS regulator. A similar POS regulator on my 650 blew, taking my stator with it, costing me a lot of money miles from home. I know I am not alone in suffering that catastrophic event. That seems to me to be a bigger thing to whine about (YMMV). Still, on other forums I read warnings about imminent failure of the CVT because of this bolt, and I don't see it happening as commonly as alleged.

Is this a tempest in a teapot? Thoughts?

Regards
Scott Fraser
 

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There is more hype compared to the # of actual failures. True the earlier bikes 03-08 did have softer bolts and about the time yours were made, Suzuki started making the newer and harder ones. You probably got ones already installed by the factory. Some people not knowing for sure have replaced theirs as a precaution. At $6 it's cheap insurance. Still it doesn't hurt to check it when you do routine maint. Even though it is catastrophic to have a CVT failure the actual # world wide compared to the total # of bikes made is still below recall thresholds. Suzuki has made subtle changes to the CVT recently in order to try and alleviate even those few failures.
 

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I am still firmly of the opinion that a worn stopper bolt is a symptom, not the cause, of a failing CVT.
 

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I am still firmly of the opinion that a worn stopper bolt is a symptom, not the cause, of a failing CVT.
I've come to that same conclusion. I check the stopper bolt more to know if something is going wrong inside the transmission than to know if the bolt is failing.
 

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The whole CVT subject is fascinating to me, never having owned one before. In the 2 weeks that I've had my '04 650 I've cleaned the CVT filter (not much dirt), replaced the original stopper bolt (very minimal wear), and this morning checked the primary spline (very clean, no metal particles, almost no red stuff, very slight coating of oil on the bearing seal, tight bolt). I guess I'm pretty happy with this bike's transmission at 18k miles. I'll add a rodent screen to the air outlet and then not worry about my CVT again for a while.
 

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I have an '03 with 40K. OEM stopper bolt, checked at 25K. so so. Never changed it.

It still runs.
 

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I am still firmly of the opinion that a worn stopper bolt is a symptom, not the cause, of a failing CVT.
+3.

I am now at 43K miles on this 08 650 and my bolt has a nick on it and back in it goes.
 

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I believe the hype with the bolt is its a cheap 'insurance' to make sure everything in that expensive CVT is at best it can be with little work and cost. Its one of those things that hey, if you can do it, why not. It could only help.

There's a lot of things we all do that are 'cheap insurance' that's not TRULY needed, but we do anyways "just in case" ... heck oil changes can be looked at in that regard. Is it absolutely imperative that we change our oils and filters at exactly the scheduled intervals that Suzuki set forth? No its not, but we do it anyways... "just in case", "it can only help"

I believe this bolt falls within that category. Minimal cost and effort... just in case.
 

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Yes, replacing the stopper bolt was cheap insurance and it also gave me an opportunity to meet the parts guy and sales guys at our local Suzuki dealer, and to sit on a 2013 Burgman and a 2013 Hayabusa :p
 

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By all means, DO INSPECT IT when doing general maintenance. But it does not need replacing if it has a few nicks/scratches on it. I'd say if it was gouged out by more than 1mm (0.039 inch) then YES, REPLACE IT.

Its good insurance to have a new one close at hand. So spend the $5 or so to have one.

But to go out and buy 2-5, ? :confused:

Like Gerry said, it more or less points that you have another problem if all of a sudden your bolt shows signs of major damage.

The stopper bolt on my 03 with 54,000 miles, nicked.
The stopper bolt on my first 08 at 15,000 miles, nicked.
The stopper bolt on my second 08 at 42,000 miles, nicked.
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
The thing is, on other forums where scooters are discussed, this infamous bolt comes up again and again, allegedly a common point of failure with Burgmans. It's almost "don't buy a Burgman because..." I'm not sure how common this CVT failure even is! I have no doubt that it has happened, and the cost of repairs would resonate loudly within the community, but just how often has it happened? If it is as rare as I think, then the whole debate is blown out of proportion.

The bolt is cheap. All you need is a 14mm socket wrench. There is no need to remove any tupperware. It's much easier than changing the spark plugs...

Scott Fraser
Calgary
 

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Huh?

the bolt is rather cheap to replace and pretty good insurance against what could happen if it were to break.

one instance of a failed stopper bolt that resulted in a chain reaction and destroyed this Italian drivers final drive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QATMBIi9Zjo
I didn't understand a word of it because I speak Hill Billy. But, as usual a picture is worth a thousand words. Thanks for the video post. It is very interesting to see the guts of this machine.
 

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The thing is, on other forums where scooters are discussed, this infamous bolt comes up again and again, allegedly a common point of failure with Burgmans. It's almost "don't buy a Burgman because..."
This happens with any product that is on a forum not designed for that product. Few examples for you:

On other maxi scooter forums (like Majesty) (this one is slightly dated though) "Don't buy the new Burgman 400, their clutches will fail. Constantly groan and wear"

On a Playstation Forum: "Don't buy an Xbox 360, it will already "red ring of death" and will need to be repaired/replaced"

On a Japanese bike forum: "Don't buy a Harley, they leak oil"

See common theme? The "bad" always gets blown out of proportion. Similar to how you look up a product and read reviews on it. Can be 100 good reviews, but if 3 of them say it will break in 4 minutes, you tend to believe that, and express that belief to other people on forums, even though you never owned that particular product.

Similar thing tends to happen here with the 650 vs 400 debate. 400 users say the 650 CVT will fail. 650 users say your constantly in the transmission on the 400 replacing belts, clutches, and pullyies. Most of the time, neither person has owned the bike they are ''bashing'', just relaying what they have heard.

One must take everything they read with a grain of salt, and hope some truth comes out of what is read.
 

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I've come to that same conclusion. I check the stopper bolt more to know if something is going wrong inside the transmission than to know if the bolt is failing.
So what exactly is failing to cause the stopper bolt to fail?
 

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So what exactly is failing to cause the stopper bolt to fail?
Most likely the bearing on the primary pulley. As that bearing starts failing it allows the pulley to wobble slightly which accelerates wear on the bolt. That also is likely what causes the rubber o'ring under the shims to fail.

I'm also starting to think that the adjustment of the primary pulley depth with those shims may contribute to the bearing failures. That would explain why some experience bearing failure and others don't. If the pulley position in the case is close to the extremes of the allowable range it may cause more sideways loading from the belt. That could accelerate the bearing wear. Nothing to prove that just supposition on my part.
 

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Oh, Oh.
My "06 Burgy (47K miles) started acting up last week. I got the dreaded FI warning and the bike went into survival mode. I drove the few miles home slowly and the warning went away just before I parked it. The next day I drove slowly around the neighborhood and it was clear the motor was doing a lot of revs for the speed. I parked it again and finally found the stopper bolt discussions. I yanked the bolt and found it was 3-4 mm short with a conical top. I am guessing this is not good.
Easy enough to replace the bolt. The big question is whether it is likely that the transmission is damaged enough to require a rebuild.
Comment?
 

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Doesn't sound good! You got 25,000 more miles than the '06 I have did before the CVT imploded.

I am wondering now if the '06 is a ******* year?

Knowing what I know now, unless you are a hobby mechanic, and if you got 47,000 miles out of it I would never spend $$$$ to fix it. That implies it is the CVT.
 
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