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Discussion Starter #1
Something over 74,000 miles on 2007 Burgman 650.

For info just to give an idea of history on the Scoot and riding use: I bought it used in 2009 with 1700 miles on it. I ride in East TN where it is very curvy, many hills, and mountains. Lot of pressure on the belt I reckon. I ride Day Rides of 150 to 250 miles. No long touring easy mileage trips, but more like roads of all sorts (Interstate as little as possible to get someplace quickly, two lane country roads, county roads, state roads, steeep switch back mountain roads, and one lane cow paths including some gravel/dirt (not trail riding, but gravel roads). I would say I do not baby it. I am not a crotch rocket young person leaning at 60 degrees (more like 45 degrees). Actually, I am 75 years old as of Sept 2013 - so, not completely crazy (just crazy enough to take the risk of riding two wheeler) and I do enjoy a MC FEELING once in a while. :)

All that said, today I was on about a 120 mile ride. I was almost home (6 miles away) when I noticed the engine was reving more than it should at 25mph (like it was stuck in a lower gear). I went to manual mode and upshifted, but it would only go to 2nd gear indicated and still at 25 mph (about 6000 rpm as I recall). Then stopped at a stop sign intersection to turn right. Not a lot of pulling power, but got back to about 20 mph. Came to an incline and speed dropped to maybe 15 or lower. Made it over the hump and cruised at say 20 mph (6000 rpm). Next hill dropped to 8 mph, pulled into a drivewway to let trafic by me.

That was the end of the game - it would not move forward under it's own power (engine reved up OK - just no power to the rear wheel).

I might say -- I have half way expected this from reports on CVT Failuires. I FEEL LUCKY that I was not alone on one of my backroad, gravel roads in the middle of no where a 100 miles from home when it hapened. A guy stopped, gave me a lift to my house, got my Van and Trailer and went back and loaded it up.

There she sets in the basement garage.

IF IT IS THE CVT and if cost to fix is more than say $2K, (which I am sure it will be), I reckon it will go to salvage. Got my monies worth ($4500 buy price) out of it at 74000 plus miles.

I WOULD PREFER to get it going again as it is a little beat up and I don't have to worry about a "Pretty Thing" when I go on my rough roads or gravel roads. In other words -- it is useable and not a "Pretty Thing" that I worry about scratching, dropping, etc. I just mostly ride. :)

It has some damage -- never dropped or wrecked except a friend, x-friend, ran into the muffler and did some damage to muffler and exhaust pipe and denied it was HIS FAULT - x-freind (repaired to be functional - not replaced with a $1000 new exahuat system). Things do get a little rough and dirty from 74000 miles of hard use and infrequent 'Look Pretty' clean ups. What I am saying is -- I can use it now and not worry about the "Pretty Thing". :) So, I would consider spending some money to get another 25000 miles out of it. But, $3000 is ridiculous.
 

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Discussion Starter #2
I add - As much as I love the Burgman 650 (comfort, quickness, way it handles - almost a sport bike, storage, looks - I could do without all the plastic, economy - near 55 to 57 mpg avearge and a car tire on the rear lasts 20000 plus miles, never did anytjomg to this one except change oil. clean CVT Filter, brake pads and fluid, radiator fluid, air cleaner twice, no new spark plugs or valve adjustments, I do love having the rear brake controlled by hand - great benefit when on a gravel down hill or other situations requring feet down and have to stop - use the rear brake vs the front is a lot safer), ALL THAT SAID, I don't know if I would buy another with the issues with the transmission and cost of repair. Definitely not a new one at $10K plus. Maybe another used one if cheap enough.

The negatves are : Seat height, Weight, Hard to Push Around - especailly when on the seat. I did have a serious outage; Voltage regulatror blew every light bulb that was on and the 12v input to the ECM Module and lef me stranded 60 miels from home. Replaced ECM and Regulator -fortunately I was able to get it resolved myself (still spent about $500 on it). Managed a fix on the Start Switch / Headlight Problem many have had. Had one other problem of a fuse blowing that left me running in one gear with no dash indicatiions - made it home 40 miles at some low speed. S0, it is a complicated machine and subject to more failures (I think) than most simple MCs.
 

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Hey Paul , @ 74,000 miles IMO that bike doesn't owe you much if any thing . Sell it as a parts bike and get yourself another used one . Truthfully If I get that many miles out of mine I'll be a happy camper .

TheReaper!
 

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The initial symptoms sounded like a stuck centre stand switch, continuing to ride at 6000 rpm in low ratio for an extended period may have done for the belt.
 

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75 and still rideing is a great thing, I agree with TheReaper 74000 is not bad, replace with a used one and you'll have spare parts.
 

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The negatves are :Hard to Push Around - especailly when on the seat.
Do this: Ignition on, switch to 'manual', ignition off, and you'll find it as easy to push whilst on the seat as any other bike. ;)
 

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Paul,

so sorry to hear about your troubles, but so glad to hear that you are still riding at 75, I hope I can follow in your foot steps when I get there.


At 75k miles, there is a good chance that your belt is gone, and hopefully that is about the only thing that needs to be changed on an 07 model.

I personally don't consider a belt failure as a major issue when it comes to the CVT, it is a wearable item after all and you got 75k miles out of it.

It could have been your clutch slipping with the high revving but with no traction at all, it is probably the belt.

I had the same exact symptoms when the belt on my std 04 went out... poor shifting for a few minutes and then poof no traction whatsoever, engine would run etc...

Replacing the belt is not that expensive, about $300-500 depending on what you need to replace.

If the primary pulley is damaged, that could add to the cost by about $800.

The only way to know is to take the CVT out and check its components. Perfect Winter project if you have a spare 650 to ride around.

Or you can part out the scoot.

I have always considered the 650 a throw away ride mainly due to the cost of the repairs, but that being said, it is still the best ride all around when it comes to scooters. Thankfully there is a nice 2nd hand market for them.

all the best....
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Thanks for the responses.

I am not really upset with the failure (knew it was coming some day). I had a lot of good hard use out of the machine (especially considering the initial purchase price of $4500).

LeDude -- I appreciate your response, I have obtained so much info from your inputs (almost like having a shop manual).

I don't think I have the facilites (tools / shop), to begin to remove the drive train on this thing. I am somewaht mechanically inclined 9EE by trade, but worked on ship inertial navigation sysrems as a field engineer (so, that hing was electrical/mecahnical).

I don't have the patience or time to do it at this point. I ride all winter (when it is above freezing and I don't feel a danger from black ice). I have a NINJA 500 (2008 I bought in 1011 for $2800 that had 1000 miles on it and garage kept). Now have 42000 miles on it. Fun Ride, but I like the Burgman 650 better.

I might even consider a Burgman 400 for the type riding I do as they are lighter, cheaper, etc. I swapped Scoots with a friend that bougth a wrecked 400 (replaced the forks and triple tree and changed weights in the CVT) -- for sure it is not the ride of a Burgman 650, but -------

I don't take long touring trips. Maximum day rides are about 250 miles round trip. Shoot, I do some of those on the NINJA 500.

I average probaly 22000 miles a year (so, better gas mileage on the 400 makes it easier to go on a 200 mile ride also) :D Thanks again
 

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Here in Victoria we have something called the Garden City Scooter Rally which attracts dozens of scooterists from around the pacific northwest every year. The night before it was to start I was riding to our scooter club's usual thursday night meeting and ride and after waiting at a red light I twisted the gas and got nothing. No sound, no sparks, no explosion, nothing. I just sat there revving the gas but not moving so I parked it, called the shop and told them of my woes. On top of all of this I had a job interview the next day, miles from my place. Not only did I miss my usual Thursday night meet and ride with our club, I was going to miss the annual scooter rally which I had been looking forward to for a year but it also jeopardized my employment. My '03 burgman 650 could not possibly have died at a worse time. A couple of days later the shop told me the scooter was basically DOA since it would cost about $2500 to fix it and that's about what it was worth. I tried to strike up a deal with the owner of the shop but since burgmans hadn't been moving he wasn't interested. The only good thing was, I had a buddy who is a scooter mechanic and he gave me $200 for it which isn't much but it's $200 more than I was expecting. He was also nice enough to let me scavenge the old beast a bit too for my newer burgman I bought a week later.
 

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My '03 burgman 650 could not possibly have died at a worse time.
Well, its never a good time to lose your trusted steed, but I know what you mean. But hey, new bike time. Always a bright side I suppose.

How many miles did you have when it went out?
 

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Discussion Starter #11
One more item --

I think I read on this site that you could see the CVT belt thru the air filter hole or somehow check it. Anyone know about that??

And, there was something about checking the clutch (what Burgman calls the transmision). I am guessing that is just remove the covers.

One more item (it is never ending) --

If I junk it --

I have two ECMs for a 2007 Model (computer modules) - one is an Orignal 2007 PN that I bougth from E Bay to replace the original one and used for a couple months. That occured when I was working the regulator problem at 29000 miles (Blew every light bulb and the 12v input to the ECM Module). ne. The one from E Bay is the exact same PN as the orignal 2007 model (lucky find for $110 vs $80 for a new one). .

The E Bay one was replaced FREE by Suzuki Dealer during the Customer Satisfaction thing I found out about while working the regulator problem. Anyway, I turned that damaged one in when Suzuki did the FREE Upgrade. Upgrade was for some idle problem on 2007 Burgman 650s that I never had.

SO, that is why I have two. Understand one is on the bike (new 2007 design for the Satisfaction Thing). But, if I scrap it and don't buy another Burgman 650, no need to keep the latest model, probably been changed by now anyway). The otehr one is the older model 2007 (befroe the satisfaction thing). Don't know if they are interchangeable - I kept it figuring I would try it if the new one failed.

I have a new Friont Tire, recently bought from Chaparral (was due to replace). If I junk the bike, it will not be needed unless I get another Burgman 650. It is the Bridgestone.

The Scooter had a GIVI box on the back when I bought it used. Not sure that will fit a 400 (if I end up with a 400). So, might sell that also. The lights on it are burnt out (happened during the regulator flare up that burned every light bulb that was on).

Most of the plastic is in good shape (black with some sparkle in it - forget what they called the color). Except panel on Muffler side has a square inch chip broke out from when my x-friend hit my muffler (little piece I glued back in). As a matter of fact the lower plastic has been off the bike since the second time I changed the oil - I just left it off, so do not have to mess with it everytime I change the oil and then you can see any other problems, like leaks, if the plastic is off.
 

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Post some pics , you never know who might be interested .

TheReaper!
 

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I wouldn't spend much money on it with the mileage it has. I would probably sell it for parts and not part it out (how much?). My friend bought a 07 with 16,000 miles on it in need of tires a couple of weeks ago in Kingsport for $3,000 and it was nice. We now have 3 650s in our little group.
 

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You cannot see the belt through the filter housing but you can tell if it is broken. Remove the filter and you can see the fan fins on the secondary pulley so you can see if it spins. Remove the filter. Start the engine. Look through the filter housing and see if the fan is spinning. If it isn't then the belt is broken.
 

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As for the clutch there is a test procedure in the owner's manual. If you determine the CVT belt is not broken then you should run it to see if the clutch is slipping.
.
 

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Well, its never a good time to lose your trusted steed, but I know what you mean. But hey, new bike time. Always a bright side I suppose.

How many miles did you have when it went out?
It only had 30,000 miles miles on it so i'm convinced the stopper bolt killed it. As you said, about a week later I found a newer, nicer burgman that I :love7:
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I have not done much with my Failed Scooter (original post) except:

1) Shop around for something used (reasonable). Found one 2011 that I might be interested in for afair price. Couple others older ones, 2007 or older might be OK if folks drop price.

2) I thought someone posted sometime back that you could see the belt with the air filter on the CVT off?? So, thought maybe I could tell if the belt was broken. Cannot see anything except the secondary pulley.
Couple things I noted were:

2a) Could move the rear wheel back and forth a couple inches (Scoot on Center Stand) and see secondary pulley move.

2b)Started engine, secondary pulley and rear wheel turns (I am on center stand with CVT Filter off). I suspect belt is failed but not completely broken and does therefore turn the secondary pulley. Speed seemed to be limited when I reved it up.

Anyone have any thoughts on those observations??? Just trying to make sure it is the belt.

Other Options:

1) Stopped by dealer for quick quote --

1a)Take it in for diagnosis = $99 (what is chance they can accurately diagnose with out taking CVT apart).

1b)Assume CVT failure then Fix COST =
From the book is 18HRS ($85 per hour plus tax) labor for replacement of everything in the CVT PLUS PARTS OF COURSE.
From the book is 12 HRS ($85 per hour plus tax) for Belt Replacement PLUS PARTS OF COURSE.

2) I am discussing with a couple mechanics (MC type folks) to see waht theyw opuld charge to take drive train out, CVT off and look at it. Then decided what is needed to be replaced and go from there (if decide to fix it - parts and labor). BY THE WAY - just to get an idea, I priced Belt ($213.36) and Primary Pulley ($675.83) at Westfield Ymaha/Suzuki in Westfield Indiana (cause a friend that use to be service manager there said,m he discounts part prices on his web site.

Consideration -- TO ME IS, if I could get it fixed for reasonable amount $1000 to $1500, might be worth the trouble. It does have 74000 plus miles (so what goes next??). Take a chance on getting another 30000 or so miles out of it (that would be worth $100 or $1500).

I LOVE the ride -- but I do not think they are the most reliable thing in the world and they are expensive to work on. (As LeDude said in his reply -- consider it a throw away item and enjoy it).

I would not fix or buy another unless I can get either done on the cheap.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
You cannot see the belt through the filter housing but you can tell if it is broken. Remove the filter and you can see the fan fins on the secondary pulley so you can see if it spins. Remove the filter. Start the engine. Look through the filter housing and see if the fan is spinning. If it isn't then the belt is broken.
Thanks Bufffalo -- After making my last post (above), I read yours and it confirms what I found (cannot see the belt, can see the secondary pulley). It does turn when you start the engine (not sure it is getting full power, I suspect the Belt is broken up and slipping like crazy, but not fully broken). I do not know.

I have a spare ECM (my bike was updated by Suzuki with the new ECM for idle control problem). So, maybe insert the old ECM - not sure it is OK to put the old ECM back in. Howeevr, I think I will try that to see if somehow the ECM is not controlling the Primary Pulley as it should. Fat Chance.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
As for the clutch there is a test procedure in the owner's manual. If you determine the CVT belt is not broken then you should run it to see if the clutch is slipping.
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Thanks again -- I do not have a manual.

Maybe test is someplace on this web site.

Or, Dealer offers a diagnosis for $99. Can one believe them even if you trust them (is there an accurate diagnosis without taking CVT apart??).
 

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Thanks Bufffalo -- After making my last post (above), I read yours and it confirms what I found (cannot see the belt, can see the secondary pulley). It does turn when you start the engine (not sure it is getting full power, I suspect the Belt is broken up and slipping like crazy, but not fully broken). I do not know.
I don't think there is a way the belt could partially break. It depends on both of the fiber loops inside it being intact to hold the links in place. If even one of the loops were to partially separate the links would fall off and you would loose all drive.

It is possible you have a problem with either the primary pulley or secondary pulley that is letting the belt get slack in it and slip. That would be hard to diagnose without taking the CVT apart.
 
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