[BackOnABikeAfter40years!]

Ok, just opened it up, the CVT system, found this:

1) Belt looks great.
2) Half of the Dr Pulley Sliders were 'flipped' (just as one of you said would be)
3) The clutch shoes are down below spec. Probably could go further, but will replace with new clutch assy. Clutch "Bell" looks totally fine. Assume it's good to keep, maybe scuff it up ?
4) There are distinct groves worn in the Variator faces. Ideas on cause of this ?
5) I have yet to pull apart the rear driven pulley to re-grease. Will do this very soon.

Love to hear any input. When replacing Variator, what are my options ?

Thanks - David

 

[Bluebottle]

You will probably find that the grooves on the variator correspond to the most used speeds - launch, plus town and open road cruising speeds.

 

[mikeyMarine]

slider will flip if you don't file off part of the plate, I fergit whai part but it's in this site somewhere

 

[BackOnABikeAfter40years!]

You will probably find that the grooves on the variator correspond to the most used speeds - launch, plus town and open road cruising speeds.

Do you think variator grooving could cause Sliders to not function (fail to lower highway RPMs) ?
Or is my 10,000 miles on belt - and excessive wear on it more likely contributory to no lower RPMs ?
I did reassy whole CVT including grease job on rear driven pulley & new clutch pack.
Works very smoothly now but RPMs not dropping.
Also I failed to file ramp plate edges, as Mikey marine mentioned.
(They didn't look sharp to my eyes)
Appreciate your help -
David

 

[BackOnABikeAfter40years!]

Here's pics of Variator face & old / new belt, fwiw.

Given what I wrote above & responses, I think I need to disassy clutch covers & check variator to see if sliders flipped (again) & at least file ramp edges.

Then install the new belt.

I had re-installed earlier belt cause miles were modest at 10,000 but now I'm examine pics it looks glazed & thinner from wear.

Am hoping to see a restoration of how well the Dr Pulley sliders lowered the RPMs when first installed.

On my 240 mile ride today, it worked smoother clutch perfect but RPMs remained high, unchanged from before.

Rear Driven Pulley is re-greased + new clutch pack in.

Any input welcomed !

TY - David

 

[G-Dub]

I don't remember if this has been said in this thread, but when reinstalling the variator, be sure to keep the whole thing clamped tightly together through out the process. If you don't keep pressure on the sliders when they're in the proper orientation they can flip while you're assembling it.

 

[Bluebottle]

The wear on that pulley sheave looks wrong to me and past end of life.

When you said “ridges” I was expecting gentle undulations, which would be normal.
Yours seem to be sharp edged gouges or series of trenches (hard to tell from photo).
Maybe due to FOD from running without a filter?
(or, less likely - you are only getting very limited belt travel over the sheave).

Whatever the cause I’d say they will catch the belt and/or slip and cause heat and premature wear.

As for the rpm, If you have changed the weights in one direction and the spring in the other you will wind up back where you started (I think there was a question on belt length/width too?). I’ve lost track where you are with that and several changes were made at once making it hard to fault find. The guys helping you with weights etc will be better placed to answer that than me.

 

[mikeyMarine]

agreed those plates need fixin/ replacin ( I am not in favor of fixin because I aint smart enough to know when you have exceeded the safe/operational thickness of the plates and all the goodies involved in reshapin metal, like heat/stress fatigue while smoothin out stuff , Id hate to machine them down smooth and reinstall them to have them crack or blow up because they were too thin or weakened by my "fixin em" ) It might even cause me to say a badword.

 

[JRoss]

that variator (and the fixed variator face) and original belt are done.

sliders can flip for multiple reasons...not holding the variator and backing plate together when installing it on the engine shaft, backing plate edges being sharp and catching the sliders, rear pulley not being able to open/close smoothly (worn, lack of lubrication, corrosion), too weak/strong contra spring in the rear pulley, dirty ramps in the variator not allowing sliders to move smoothly.

as has been suggested, it would be prudent based on the age/milage of your burgman to take the rear pulley/clutch apart, clean, inspect, replace worn parts if found, and properly lube it. suzuki has a maximum inside diameter spec for the clutch housing (bell) and contra spring has a minimum length spec in the service manual.

a malossi clutch and bell can be purchased from scooterparts co for $240 (clutch alone is $160, bell alone is $130) and a yellow malossi contra spring for $20. for contrast an OEM clutch, bell, and contra spring from Ron Ayers will be about $430. scooterparts co sells a malossi variator kit for $200 (comes with a the variator w/seals, spacer, rollers, yellow contra spring, and grease to put between the variator and spacer not on the rollers/sliders) it doe not have the variator fixed face, and I was told by them that sliders shouldn't be used in it, no explanation as to why....roller/slider ramp profile could be different than OEM...I dunno.

 

[BackOnABikeAfter40years!]

Awesome input from several of you appreciate it all !

- Variator was held together carefully.
BUT I neglected to use grinder to "re-flat" the sharp ramp plate edges - MY bad !

- Old glazed worn belt I'll toss / use new one.

- Upgraded yellow Malossi spring & full proper regreased DP assy SHOULD be good, clutch pack is new.

No $$$ in kitty for new Variator just now, we'll see how this one fares once the above is in play (ramp edge fix + new belt).

If Malossi Variator can't use DP Sliders, sounds like a new OE Variator is only option ?

TY - David

 

[JRoss]

No $$$ in kitty for new Variator just now, we'll see how this one fares once the above is in play (ramp edge fix + new belt).

that sucks. those variator faces aren't going to be kind to a new belt. best of luck.

If Malossi Variator can't use DP Sliders, sounds like a new OE Variator is only option ?

that's what I did...well, haven't installed it yet. have just shy of 30k miles on piglet and have a new OEM variator (both faces), 18g sliders, malossi clutch+bell, and yellow contra spring ready to install (will be ordering wheel bearings, fork seals, fork oil, and brake pads soon for spring maintenance before I start riding regularly). I won't put a new belt on mine with the variator faces in their current condition.

buy once, 😭 once

 

[BackOnABikeAfter40years!]

JRoss:

Good to know.

Recall what both your stock OE Variator pieces cost ?
From Ron Ayers ?

The new belt may be a "sacrificial lamb", sure, but we learn by experimentation.

It was my $40 China "spare belt" so oh well.
Let's see how it holds up.

Hey, I'm thinking that the "sharp ramp edges" are my Faux Pas.

When I first installed DP Sliders, perfect function of lower RPMs.
Had about 6,000 miles of proper fenction.

Do ramp edges get sharp & require flattening ONLY with DP Sliders ?
Or also with OE rollers ?

Also, with DP Sliders, how frequently do the edges require filing square ?

Each belt change or more often ?

TY guys !

 

[mikeyMarine]

file once, done

 

[BackOnABikeAfter40years!]

file once, done

Never again ?

So they're sharp from factory - but that's wrong profile for Sliders ?

Once you grind them flat, they stay that way ?

Mitch did & he used a Dremel grinder to flatten / un-sharp.

I never did.

Back to the grindstone for me !

Literally.

 

[JRoss]

Recall what both your stock OE Variator pieces cost ?
From Ron Ayers ?

june 2022 prices - *my 2007 uses different part numbers than your 2006 so prices are likely different
fixed face $79
movable face $88
seals (2 of them) $18
spacer $38

bought 1 nut that holds the variator to the engine shaft and 2 of the conical washers under that nut.

So they're sharp from factory - but that's wrong profile for Sliders ?

can be. this post w/pics shows why you want to break/dull the sharp edge here's another photo of my variator from may 2021

Do ramp edges get sharp & require flattening ONLY with DP Sliders ?
Or also with OE rollers ?

yes. rollers won't push out as far and if you 'flip/roll' a roller, who cares? it's already round.

Once you grind them flat, they stay that way ?

as far as I know, yes they should.

*edit: added additional link to another busa post

 

[BackOnABikeAfter40years!]

Not bad prices, reasonable.

Did you buy new ramp plate ?

I see now, it kinda all adds up.

I'd best do the proper ramp edge profile grind job.

Re-install new belt.

See how she goes.

(Will groves prevent Slider operation ?
Will China belt catch fire & explode my Scoot? Stay tuned for updates !)

I'll rolly get new Variator & OE belt before any long Tour.

For sure I'll measure both belts precisely + remove Variator to see IF sliders flipped (AGAIN !).

There is the idea of pulling the outer cover for belt inspection, too....see if groves trash new belt lol.

 

[zrx212]

Like mentioned above your pulleys are done, I expect similar grooving/wear on rear pulley sheaves, those ridges will indeed cause belt and variator to hang up/hesitate in different spots, that and failing to file the edge of ramp plate(that has been pointed out in multiple of your threads and other on BUSA, IOW is general "Tribal Knowledge" by now ), will also contribute to the DRP sliders flipping, as they are not able to keep up the variator + ramp plate gap. Sanding/blending down some of ridges may work for a while, but I would recommend going back to rollers if you do so, they cant flip,

 

[BackOnABikeAfter40years!]

Got it & thanks agreed.
The groves on rear sheaves are super slight less so than on front Variator halves.

I "THOUGHT" I had done sufficient filing on ramp plate edges but then watched Mitches video more carefully, and saw I did not.

The required profile, to my sense, requires a powerful Dremel & nice stone.

I def was using a dull file & failed to achieve the profile.

That's prob why I got a a few thousand miles of nice Low Hwy RPM & then failure.

So, lesson learned.

Bought me the right tool to grind ramp plate.

Plus I just ordered all new Suzuki OE parts via Ron Ayers.com - inc New Variator.

No sense in tearing up a new belt, right ?

TY for the help & will update things once progress occurs.

David