[JRoss]

don't overthink it, just open the CVT and have a look.

 

[BackOnABikeAfter40years!]

But consider, "Underthinking" it last time was my bad, & why I need a re-do.

I desire to have any expected parts on hand prior to opening it.

I should have a Driven Pulley seal kit, yes ?
Is there a Variator Seal kit ?

Are those Seal kits + any pulley hard parts (pins, etc) Suzuki OE from Ron Ayers, only ?

I watched every detail on the "Robot Vespa Clutch Job"

Fabulous info, and I'm sure my snafu was due to not performing what he shows.

"Experience is what we get, right after we needed it..."

TY - David

 

[zrx212]

I should have a Driven Pulley seal kit, yes ?
Is there a Variator Seal kit ?

Are those Seal kits + any pulley hard parts (pins, etc) Suzuki OE from Ron Ayers, only ?

Suzuki does not sell any pulley repair and/or seal kits and Afaik no aftermarket are available in the USA. Any part you may need will have to be purchased individually from a vendor, like Ron Ayers, etc.

The "kits" for different services, that "Robot" mentions, is a option offered on Piaggio/Vespa products, probably because is smart , not to say, way cheaper than Su .. .

Replacing the seals on the rear pulley is probably a good idea, not so critical on variator, but wait until you see the condition of seals( did grease leak out, on clutch, etc), guide pins, etc., is mostly a judgement call on guide pins, etc., like shown on video, was there enough or goo grease on them ?, surface wear, play, etc.

 

[JRoss]

don't overthink it, just open the CVT and have a look.

 

[Dave_J]

don't overthink it, just open the CVT and have a look.

We have an echo in here.

 

[BackOnABikeAfter40years!]

Suzuki does not sell any pulley repair and/or seal kits and Afaik no aftermarket are available in the USA. Any part you may need will have to be purchased individually from a vendor, like Ron Ayers, etc.

The "kits" for different services, that "Robot" mentions, is a option offered on Piaggio/Vespa products, probably because is smart , not to say, way cheaper than Su .. .

Replacing the seals on the rear pulley is probably a good idea, not so critical on variator, but wait until you see the condition of seals( did grease leak out, on clutch, etc), guide pins, etc., is mostly a judgement call on guide pins, etc., like shown on video, was there enough or goo grease on them ?, surface wear, play, etc.

Perfect advise, thx.
I was conflating Suzuki & Ron Ayers.
But his company seems to handle all Suzuki OE parts. That or eBay.

I saw 0 grease last time (5500 & 2 months ago) no leaks in either pulley.

Does adding grease require Seal removal or no ?

I watched Robot detailed video with AN400 manual open & now see all that I missed.

No wonder the CVT flipped out it's probably dry in there.

We live & learn.

Once new spare belt comes, I'll dig into it.

Seals sound optional this time.

Proper Fresh Mobil 1 Synthetic Grease mandatory.

TY - David

 

[zrx212]

Grease, read my take on it .... CVT and/or Driven Pulley Grease Choices, maybe TMI !!

BTW, IMO Mobil 1 Synthetic Grease is just adequate temperature wise

 

[s-steel]

exactly what I was thinking when I read it. that specific grease may not hold up to the brutal heat of the cvt.

 

[Bluebottle]

As ZRX says - there is a lot of heat produced back there, choose grease accordingly

 

[BackOnABikeAfter40years!]

Ok, I'll read that thread, TY.

Temp range for Mobil 1 Syn Grease is -58 F to 475 F

Is that insufficient heat resistance ?

Meanwhile here are the complete specs for Mobil 1 Synthetic Grease.

All-Purpose Automotive Grease	• Reliable lubrication over wide temperature range -50 C (-58 F) to 246 C (475 F) • 75 % reduction in torque need at -40 F (-40 C) 1
Wide Operating Temperature Range	-40C (-40F) to 150C (302 F)
Excellent Resistance to Rust and Corrosion	• Longer life of bearings and chassis lube points when exposed to corrosive environments
Outstanding Structural Stability	• Provides effective lubrication over extended periods of time
Exceptional wear protection under heavy loads	• 20 % Improved wear protection 2. • Provides bearing protection while cornering and other conditions where bearings temporarily experience heavy loads.
Excellent resistance to water wash	• 40% better resistance to water wash out3 from heavy rain storms or exposure to high amounts of water.
Improved grease bearing life	• 3X improvement in grease bearing life4

Disclaimers:

1Based on ASTM D4693 vs mineral oil grease

2Based on ASTM D2266 vs mineral oil grease

3Based on ASTM D1264 vs mineral oil grease

4Based on DIN 51821 vs mineral oil grease

NASCAR® is a registered trademark of the National Association for Stock Car Auto Racing, Inc.


Applications

Mobil 1™ Synthetic Grease meets the requirements of the National Lubricating Grease institute (NLGI) performance classification GC-LB. It is recommended for automotive applications at both high and low temperatures. It is particularly suited for applications such as disc brake wheel bearings and ball and steering joints. It will provide outstanding bearing protection under heavy loads at any highway speed, and where moisture or condensation is a factor.




Specifications and Approvals

This product meets or exceeds the requirements of:

NLGI GC-LB

 

[Bluebottle]

Temp range for Mobil 1 Syn Grease is -58 F to 475 F

According to your posted info operating temp max is 150C (302 F)
A running cvt/clutch can easily exceed that.

 

[BackOnABikeAfter40years!]

According to your posted info operating temp max is 150C (302 F)
A running cvt/clutch can easily exceed that.

Ok, TY noted.

This part is confusing to me: Why the discrepancy:

All-Purpose Automotive Grease	• Reliable lubrication over wide temperature range -50 C (-58 F) to 246 C (475 F) • 75 % reduction in torque need at -40 F (-40 C) 1
Wide Operating Temperature Range	-40C (-40F) to 150C (302 F)

So we need to obtain special grease it sounds like ?

I live in a small town, stuff like this really throws you cause inevitably, the 'super _' stuff you need is in Dallas FW, 3 hours away.

Or maybe not....I'll dig into that thread. Maybe we have local options.....

David

 

[zrx212]

I live in a small town, stuff like this really throws you cause inevitably, the 'super _' stuff you need is in Dallas FW, 3 hours away.

Or maybe not....I'll dig into that thread. Maybe we have local options.....

You can find Lucas, red and tacky/ red/white tube or tub at most auto parts or Big Box Auto Parts, 540F max temp/drop point and compatible lithium complex, for $10 or less, do not buy/use Lucas green grease. BTW, again that Mobil 1 is

 

[Bluebottle]

This part is confusing to me: Why the discrepancy:

It’s not a discrepancy. max temp and max operating temp are 2 different things determined by different criteria.

Operating temp refers to continuous use over a period of time,
(max temp can be with replacement every 1 hr, 24 hr)

I don’t think anybody is saying don’t use it, adequate rather than mega super duper.
I think Malossi‘s own grease is about 160-170 C so not much different

 

[BackOnABikeAfter40years!]

OK. Our local AutoZone seems to have the Lucas Red & Tacky #2 in stock.

Reading detailed spec sheets now & may grab some of the Lucas.

TY - David

EDIT: I understand. If the Lucas is far more tolerant of Super High Heat, then it's worth the modest $$$ to have it where it's needed.

Probably the CVT on this Scoot is the highest Temp application I have.

As a Mercedes owner, (2 models, w210 + w163) and DIY Tech, we pretty much default to Mobil 1 Lubes, as they're nearly always Mercedes Benz approved / recommended.
And I've never seen them NOT be about the best there is, (the only real equivalent seems to be some Lucas, Amsoil or Royal Purple - but those latter 3 are usually harder to procure), but admittedly the super high temp spec is SO crucial to this exact aspect of the Scoot, that compromising would be VERY short sighted.

 

[JRoss]

have you opened the CVT?

 

[zrx212]

have you opened the CVT?

Yes, what he said

 

[Dave_J]

have you opened the CVT?

Yes, what he said

Echo echo echo echo

 

[zrx212]

have you opened the CVT?

Yes, what he said

Echo echo echo echo

Yes, Like Hank and Toby sang, " A Little Less Talk and A Lot More Action "

 

[BackOnABikeAfter40years!]

Not yet:

Waylaid by cold weather, Holidays & my MB ML500 needs some work, too.

Anticipate opening it very soon & doing the pulley lube service, belt inspection.

Just got new China belt for stowing onboard as a 'emergency belt'

(It looks good; other than doesn't say 'Mitsuboshi' I can't tell it from OE belt).

I'll be sure to update with what I find & how it goes.

Merry Christmas y'all......

David

PS:
I had posted incomplete info on specifications of Mobil 1 Synthetic Grease earlier. My bad !

I re-read my paper copy and found on page 2 it says "Dropping Point: 300c" = 572 degrees F.
(Which equals, closely, the Lucas Red & Tacky specs)

Mobil 1 Synthetic Grease Specifications:

Grade NLGI 2
Thickener Type Lithium Complex
Four-Ball Extreme Pressure Test, Load Wear Index, kgf, ASTM D2596 51
Corrosion Preventive Properties, Rating, ASTM D1743 Pass
Oil Separation, 0.25 psi, 24 h @ 25 C, mass%, ASTM D1742 3
Penetration, 60X, 0.1 mm, ASTM D217 280
Dropping Point, °C, ASTM D2265 300
Color, Visual Red
Viscosity @ 40 C, Base Oil, mm2/s, ASTM D445 150
Timken OK Load, lb, ASTM D2509 60
Copper Strip Corrosion, 24 h, 100 C, Rating, ASTM D4048 1B
Four-Ball Extreme Pressure Test, Weld Point, kgf, ASTM D2596 315
Four-Ball Wear Test, Scar Diameter, mm, ASTM D2266 0.5
Water Washout, Loss @ 79 C, wt%, ASTM D1264 3
Low Temperature Torque, 60 s, -40 C, N m, ASTM D4693