[gluce61]

Hi Guys,

I read some post on counter steering. I follow it some but could you elaborate on this subject a little more?

I am curious as to how it exactly works and so on. The other post I have read spoke some on the subject but I am looking for more details on performing and practicing.

I am new to the forum and recently purchased the 400. I had 200 miles in three days and going to work in between. I really enjoy it. Have had motorcycles in the past but like the idea of not jacking with the gears and just enjoying the ride.

Thanks for your help and enjoy the forum. Anyone in the Kansas City area? 8)

 

[Randy]

You need to- do a little reading , try

http://www.msgroup.org/DISCUSS.asp

It is also listed on our web links page under Safety and riding .
a lot of good articles. 8)

 

[Invincsum]

Welcome, George! We just got a 400 in early May. She already has 500+ happy miles on her.

I was puzzled about countersteering, too. Sometimes the descriptions can be confusing. :? At first, I thought it was pushing the handlebar opposite the way you want to turn--e.g., push left to go right. But someone told me it's actually "push/press left to go left," and vice versa.

I tried that today. I found that when I bore down on the left handlebar, the bike did lean toward the left, thus allowing a nice, smooth turn into a curve. And the same thing in reverse on the right. So I basically used the palm of my hand (as it was wrapped around the bar) to gently press down into the bar. My partner says it works for her if she moves her left knee out to curve left (not quite countersteering but seems to work for her).

Does this help?
Wishing you many happy and safe miles ahead,

Bryna

 

[DonRich90]

My partner says it works for her if she moves her left knee out to curve left (not quite countersteering but seems to work for her).

Hey Bryna! Your partners right but a real important advantage of "push/press right and push/press left" over shifting body weight is that your input in an emergency and the bike's response is much quicker.
You can also just press on the right or left footpeg (or floorboard) to make the frame lean to initiate a turn but it too is too slow in an emergency.
Remember, you're not only concerned about making the bike turn or go through a curve. You want to be able to quickly swerve to avoid a sudden obstacle in your path of travel ( a box that suddenly falls off the truck you're following, an animal or child that suddenly darts in your path, etc.). This is where learning and constantly practicing press/push left and right is important. You want to make it habit because in an emergency you will revert to habit. You'll hear this all again when you take the PA Riders Course.

 

[Randy]

At first, I thought it was pushing the handlebar opposite the way you want to turn--e.g., push left to go right. But someone told me it's actually "push/press left to go left," and vice versa.

The "push right go right " is fine but understand by push they don't mean down toward the ground they mean push the handlebar forward. Yes it works by pushing down toward the ground ( but that's a weight shift turn )
You were right the first time you do turn the wheel right to make a left at any speed over 10 mph

 

[lycheed]

Guys,
Good to hear some technical riding being discuessed, and not only in the context of going through bends more quickly. On the big x11, if you don't use these kinds of techniques and try to simply lean in the saddle, you will simply collide with the mountain face sitting at a funny angle on the bike... If the aim is to turn faster into a bend, use of the front brake to sharpen the rake will also speed you into the turn.

George,
One of the benefits of owning an AN400 over a conventional motorcycle is that it turns far, far faster than many conventional roadbikes with far less effort. In short, it is probably one of the few bikes you could choose to ride that you actually don't need to know about countersteering etc in order to be safe. Always nice to know, though. Another benefit of the big-scooter over the conventional bike is that with that long wheelbase, low weight, low centre of gravity, and combined braking system, if you do need to avoid an obstacle you can brake extremely hard, and turn with great ease. One of the greatest drawbacks of riding a motorcycle is that we tend to avoid potential accidents, and then collide with road furniture or simply fall off. Big scooters inherantly make that more difficult to happen.

Enjoy your fast turning, cool single.

 

[gluce61]

Counter Steering

Thanks everyone for your input. I do think as many responses as possible will help us all to better understand and practice this procedure.

I want to be a proficient and safe rider as i am sure we all do. Also being cool isn't bad either.

Thanks,

George

 

[Invincsum]

Hey Don and Randy! As always you both give excellent advice. But now I'm confused again. At speeds over 10 mph, do I want to push/press right to go right or push /press left to go right? I've checked out Jim Davis' comments on the MS Group, too, and just when I think I'm doing it right, I get confused again. Fortunately, this confusion all takes place off the bike!

Lycheed, I appreciate your comments about the big scoots' handling. I must say, thanks to those quicky yellow lights we have in this area and some stupid "cager" tricks, I've already had to stop pretty quickly. The Burgie 400 does this very efficiently and safely.

Thanks again, guys! I'm soaking all of this up like a sponge!

Bryna

 

[DonRich90]

Hi again, Bryna! Don't get confused. Just remember press/push in the direction you want to go. With a little experience with your bike you'll learn at what speed the bike starts to respond to this method (generally, over 10 -12 mph). In the MSP swerving exercises we usually ran at about 14 -16 mph and the bikes responded easily at those speeds.
When you practice this technique for turns or curves, start at slow speeds until you get the hang of the way the bike responds. Then, gradually increase your speeds as you get more comfortable. Remember, while you are going through the curve, maintain the pressure on the bar to keep the bike in a lean and then gradually press on the opposite bar as you exit the turn to bring the bike upright.
A good way to practice is to find a vacant paved parking lot and just ride in a circle maintaining pressure on the inside bar. Keep a steady slow speed. When you are comfortable you can gradually increase the pressure on the inside bar to tighten the turn and make smaller circles.
Try not to keep looking down at your front wheel or fender. Try turning yor head and looking across the circle about 1/3 or 1/2 way and maintaining that. You want to always be looking at where you want the bike to go - not where it's at. It'll make for a much smoother ( thus safer) turn. At the same time you are looking across the circle, you are also scanning the surface well ahead of your path of travel looking for any problems (oil, sand, gravel, pot holes, debris, etc).
I apoligize for getting so "wordy" but I hope I've helped and didn't confuse you more.

 

[Invincsum]

No longer confused

Don, thank you so much! That makes perfect sense--and was to some extent what I tried yesterday (and worked). I'll definitely keep practicing--some evenings after work (assuming it's still light out), I simply ride around the local streets to practice turns and taking curves. And I do practice slow-speed maneuvers, though need to do more.

Thanks again,

Bryna

 

[Bleeder]

My partner says it works for her if she moves her left knee out to curve left (not quite countersteering but seems to work for her).


Bryna

I recommend this to practice the "knee technique".

Peace.

 

[Invincsum]

LOL

:lol: :lol: :lol: Thanks Bleeder! I'll get her 5'11" self to the nearest panda playground ride so she can practice more.

Great photo!

Bryna

 

[ladnar]

Counter Steering

Brilliant - who makes the scooter? I am thinking Taiwan or China because of the body styling. Bet the rider does this sort of thing as a profession, like on Superbikes!!!
Great forum, mixing serious threads with a little bit of comedy every now and then.
Regards

 

[Bleeder]

Re: Counter Steering

Bet the rider does this sort of thing as a profession, like on Superbikes!!!

Actually, I think it is Michael Jackson.



Peace.

 

[Bleeder]

Re: Counter Steering

Great forum, mixing serious threads with a little bit of comedy every now and then.
Regards

Sadly, I'm of no use in the "serious thread" department, but since I have a wife, 3 teenage daughters, a female cat, and 48 employees, all of whom are female, my sense of humor is all that stands between me and utter, blubbering insanity, so that is where I will direct my contribution efforts.


Peace.

 

[Randy]

Bleeder
You mean you posted that picture as a joke :?:
:lol: :lol:

 

[lycheed]

Brnya,

Sorry to drag my feet with responding. Really, don't worry about how to turn - the 250/400 is so easy to ride that you really don't need to think. You just do. Over here, the youth tend to ride with leg relaxing on one knee, cigarette in one hand, and drink in an aftermaket cup holder - and still embarrass conventional motorcycle riders on the sudden bends that pepper the city roads over here. And they can stop quicker with one hand than the average conventional riders can confidently do time and time again if a U-turner disrupts their flow.

All you need to think about is your road positioning. Through correct positioning you can avoid many accidents, and see where there is potential danger. This is even more useful than combined brakes and ABS. Lucky are those that have all of the above.

Lycheed

 

[Rod]

You made me laugh again Bleeder ...... do you torture your employees on a regular basis ?

 

[Invincsum]

Hold the java

Thanks, Lycheed. I won't be carrying my morning cuppa with me on the bike , but I do appreciate your comments about the ease of turning with the Burgman.

Bryna

 

[csachs1]

are u running a brothel?