[raduch]

Hello there,
i am new to this forum and i have a problem with my 2003 650 Burgman.I got it a few months ago with 65000km in fine condition,no CVT or engine problems.The only problem i have is with the consumption(i use it in the city for short distances but a lot of short trips a day and i dont go fast,30-45mph)that goes up to 8.7l/100km or 32mpg and never goes down under 8.3l/100km or 34mpg.I noticed that when i turn the cold engine on in the morning ,the exhaust gases smell like on a Toyota Yaris 1.0(well burned fuel),but after 1-2minutes of idling the exhaust gases start to smell like on an old car that doesnt burn the fuel very efficient.I have 2 friends with Silverwing 400 and 600 and those engines are great.Since the moment they start the engine and after 10 minute they turn it off,theres no gas smell or anything ,just the smell i was talking about earlier,the Toyota Yaris 1.0 exhaust smell .I checked the compresion at a local bike service and it was perfect.I checked it because i thought that the engine is dead after so many km.If anyone has any ideea,please share it with me.Thanks!

 

[NormanB]

A quick test to eliminate any combustion issues that may arise form multiple sources is to get you exhaust gas analysed. Most garage service departments have the kit to do this (not just motorcycle outfits). My advice would be to chat directly with the mechanics if you can and see if they will agree to get it for during lunch hour - arrange the day and ride the bike in hot and get the test done.

At the other end of the potential problem..... How is the bike to move around (with the engine off)? and ......
is the rear wheel free to rotate by hand when the bike is up on the centre stand?

 

[miken6mz]

Just a guess, but if the engine coolant temperature sensor malfunctioned (reading cold coolant when the engine was hot), this would cause the computer to send way too much fuel through the injectors.

 

[NormanB]

........which would be detected by exhaust gas analysis.

 

[ErikDK]

Doesn't your shop have the equivalent of this: http://www.superstreetbike.com/hotproducts/1208_sbkp_healtech_electronics_suzuki_obd_tool/

It's made in Hungary and costs €149 plus €8 shipping as parcel.
http://www.healtech-electronics.de/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=&product_id=56&category_id=22&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=1&vmcchk=1&Itemid=1

 

[raduch]

Doesn't your shop have the equivalent of this: http://www.superstreetbike.com/hotproducts/1208_sbkp_healtech_electronics_suzuki_obd_tool/

It's made in Hungary and costs €149 plus €8 shipping as parcel.
http://www.healtech-electronics.de/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=&product_id=56&category_id=22&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=1&vmcchk=1&Itemid=1

No,they don't have this king of stuff .Most of them only work on motorcycles or scuters if there isn't any computer error or other electrical problems that need a ,and most with motorcycles with carburators.

 

[raduch]

A quick test to eliminate any combustion issues that may arise form multiple sources is to get you exhaust gas analysed. Most garage service departments have the kit to do this (not just motorcycle outfits). My advice would be to chat directly with the mechanics if you can and see if they will agree to get it for during lunch hour - arrange the day and ride the bike in hot and get the test done.

At the other end of the potential problem..... How is the bike to move around (with the engine off)? and ......
is the rear wheel free to rotate by hand when the bike is up on the centre stand?

The brake isn't a problem,it's easy to move around with the scooter and when i start it in the morning and the bike is on the centre stand, the wheel spins up to 12km/h.

 

[raduch]

Just a guess, but if the engine coolant temperature sensor malfunctioned (reading cold coolant when the engine was hot), this would cause the computer to send way too much fuel through the injectors.

The temperature sensor works just fine,the engine goes up to 3 lines on the indicator and stays there.I'm gonna go and do a gas analysis and see what i'll find out.I will post a picture of the result,but i think it will be in romanian

 

[ErikDK]

The temperature sensor works just fine,the engine goes up to 3 lines on the indicator and stays there.I'm gonna go and do a gas analysis and see what i'll find out.I will post a picture of the result,but i think it will be in romanian

There's also an intake air temperature sensor, separate from the ambient air temperature sensor for the dash.

A proper diagnosis tool, like the one i linked to, will tell you the sensor values transmitted to the ECU, so you can compare them to reality real-time.

Here's the demo version: http://www.healtech-electronics.com/obd/updates/Setup_OBD-Suzuki.exe

 

[raduch]

A quick test to eliminate any combustion issues that may arise form multiple sources is to get you exhaust gas analysed. Most garage service departments have the kit to do this (not just motorcycle outfits). My advice would be to chat directly with the mechanics if you can and see if they will agree to get it for during lunch hour - arrange the day and ride the bike in hot and get the test done.

At the other end of the potential problem..... How is the bike to move around (with the engine off)? and ......
is the rear wheel free to rotate by hand when the bike is up on the centre stand?

I atached the result from the exhaust gas test.

 

[NormanB]

Well I am no expert - what did the guy who did the test say?

I would say this is evidence of bad combustion and probably a degree of lubricating oil burning too.

The Lamda value is about right. CO ( Carbon Monoxide) is very high,you would expect around 0.5% and the HC (Hydrocarbons) are higher than one would like - max 200ppm but on a finely fettled machine around 10-20ppm. If you were in UK your bike would fail the annual statutory test on both CO and HC..

When your engine is running is there visible smoke from the exhaust, is there any smoke when you blip the throttle and what colour black or blue?

I think the next step is a compression test.

You may find this article useful background - Linky

Fault finding is difficult at a distance but consider checking:
1. Air filter.
2. pull the plugs and check colour and condition of tip ( I bet they are horrible black and oily).
3. Check engine temp sensor it may be causing over fuelling.

 

[raduch]

Well I am no expert - what did the guy who did the test say?

I would say this is evidence of bad combustion and probably a degree of lubricating oil burning too.

The Lamda value is about right. CO ( Carbon Monoxide) is very high,you would expect around 0.5% and the HC (Hydrocarbons) are higher than one would like - max 200ppm but on a finely fettled machine around 10-20ppm. If you were in UK your bike would fail the annual statutory test on both CO and HC..

When your engine is running is there visible smoke from the exhaust, is there any smoke when you blob the throttle and what colour black or blue?

I think the next step is a compression test.

You may find this article useful background - Linky

Fault finding is difficult at a distance but consider checking:
1. Air filter.
2. pull the plugs and check colour and condition of tip ( I bet they are horrible black and oily).
3. Check engine temp sensor it may be causing over fuelling.

The guy who did the test didn't say anything because he only does this tests for cars,but he also say'd that some data are pretty high.There's no smoke(not even on cold start) at all,only a little smoke when i rev it up to 8-9000rpm on the center stand.I checked the compresion and there's no problem on that department.A mechanic say'd that this could also be a problem with the throttle syncronizing,which should be done sometimes in the scooters life, and i know for sure that this was never done on my scooter,at least since it's in Romania.He had the same problem with other 2-3 650's that had a consumption of up to 18mpg,and after syncronizing the throttle this problem disappeared.

 

[NormanB]

OK - well having a sound compression test is reassuring as far as the up and downer parts are concerned. it does not eliminate oil burning entirely that could be happening up at the valves - but put this to one side for now.

I have never done balancing on a Burger but the principles are simple enough the only catch is you need a gauge set with the accompany plastic tubes to do it. On the throttle bodies there is IIRC a little test connection on each throttle body.

Before you dive in there though, have a look at your air filter - is it truly clean? You need a clean filter for the sake of the whole system and you certainly do not want to mess around with synchronisation or balancing without a clean filter.

 

[Dave_J]

If you do not know the history, I would replace the air filter and sparkplugs. There are two engine temp sensors. One for the ECM and one for the water temp gauge. The one I would check (ECM) is up on the air box that fastens to the throttle body's, towards the front.

 

[raduch]

If you do not know the history, I would replace the air filter and sparkplugs. There are two engine temp sensors. One for the ECM and one for the water temp gauge. The one I would check (ECM) is up on the air box that fastens to the throttle body's, towards the front.

I will get the filter out this weekend to see it with my eyes that the filter is new,if not,i will change it.I changed the spark plugs with NGK Iridium.I don't know how i will check the sensors,but i will try.

 

[Dave_J]

I will get the filter out this weekend to see it with my eyes that the filter is new,if not,i will change it.I changed the spark plugs with NGK Iridium.I don't know how i will check the sensors,but i will try.

Many years ago a member was having issues like yours and his Air Temp sensor was unplugged. Also make sure the sparkplug coil is plugged in and pushed all the way down on the plug, common failure and bad running engine cause. au o zi buna!

 

[ErikDK]

It's way to rich, CO should be well below 1% and CO2 above 13%, HC below 100 and NOx around 2000.

Your ECU thinks the engine is cold and injects to much fuel.

What does the correct tester that plugs into the ECU and gives you real-time sensor values say?

http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h56.pdf

Causes of Excessive Carbon MonoxideHigh carbon monoxide levels
are caused by anything that can make the air/mixture richer than
"ideal". The following examples are typical causes of rich mixtures on fuel injected vehicles:
• Excessive fuel pressure at the injector(s)
• Leaking fuel injector(s)
• Ruptured fuel pressure regulator diaphragm
• Loaded/malfunctioning EVAP system (two speed idle test)
• Crankcase fuel contamination (two speed idle test)
• Plugged PCV valve or hose (two speed idle test)
• Closed loop control system incorrectly shifted rich
• False input signal to ECM
-incorrect indication of load, coolant temp., O2 content, or throttle position

 

[Buffalo]

If the intake air sensor has completely failed then you should be getting a FI light and a C21 code. It it is giving readings that are within acceptable range but low for the actual temperature then you would not get an FI light but the fuel mixture would be rich. If you can get access to a service manual there is a test procedure for the sensor that you can do with a multimeter.

 

[raduch]

If the intake air sensor has completely failed then you should be getting a FI light and a C21 code. It it is giving readings that are within acceptable range but low for the actual temperature then you would not get an FI light but the fuel mixture would be rich. If you can get access to a service manual there is a test procedure for the sensor that you can do with a multimeter.

Thank you all for the help!I will try to do all these tests,but i only have time on weekends.The manual i downloaded was scanned from the original one and the quality of the images in it is very very bad.

 

[ErikDK]

You can test the air intake sensor with a multimeter and/or replace it temporarily with a 2kΩ resistor

Intake Air Temp. Resistance
20 °C ( 68 °F) Approx. 2.45 kΩ
50 °C (112 °F) Approx. 0.808 kΩ
80 °C (176 °F) Approx. 0.322 kΩ
110 °C (230 °F) Approx. 0.148 kΩ