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Clutch bearings

3K views 36 replies 7 participants last post by  zrx212 
#1 ·
2008 red AN400
2 yrs ago, I replaced the "inner" or "fixed" bearing.
The clutch seems noisy.
Bearings feel ok.
Now I ordered that hidden middle bearing.
Uh-oh. It seems you have to remove the "inner" bearing to get at the hidden snap ring ☹ and bearing.
Will the inner bearing be ruined by tapping it out?

2nd alternative. Remove 5 clutch shoes, temp. assemble, install cover to support clutch, start her up. See if noise was in the shoes somehow.

R&R that middle bearing does NOT look like a pleasant day 🤬
 
#3 ·
Put the hammer away if you plan on reusing needle bearing( I did use a hammer and long 3/8 extension to remove mine, but I had new needle bearing), using either a press or threaded rod with washers and/or sockets, you can push everything out at once, worth a try with the ridiculous price of the Susuki oem bearings, look here .. Variator Inspection & your feedback

I made my own tool for the snap ring from cheap "Harbor Freight" double joint pliers, ground ends to fit snap ring, here's a pick when I did my SW600. I also used a double sealed ball bearing, not oem, B400 is 6904-2RS.
Bicycle part Measuring instrument Saw Clock Gear
 
#4 ·
Just for future reference, the 6904-2RS takes the place of the roller bearing and not the needle bearing? And that size is 20 x 37 x 9 mm?

The only advantage I see with the oem bearing is easier to grease not being sealed?

Is there a reason one of the bearings is a needle bearing?
 
#6 ·
I appreciate the tips and pix.
The FSM states simply, Remove Snap Ring ☹
I see a use for my 12T press here, for the bearing. Maybe a heat gun too.
 
#8 ·
Now we're having fun 😐
I took the clutch shoes off their plate.
One tiny snubber is missing. See arrow.
Any ideas for a replacement, Automotive tire Vehicle brake Bicycle part Disc brake Rim
or 5 new ones, all look mangled?
Maybe custom cut 5 plumbing washers? How much heat do they have to take?
Not sure if missing one will generate noise, but I'll fix it while I can.
 
#10 ·
Not sure if missing one will generate noise, but I'll fix it while I can.
Yes, definitely those missing/deteriorated, they are act both as bumpers/snubbers/dampers for the clutch shoes, the shoes don't move much they are always engaged to bumpers, it could be well above 300F in traffic on a clutch, a "Blue Bell" has reached 500F 😳, I made some of those bumpers before for my Chinese scooters, with high pressure fuel line sections.
 
#9 ·
It gets hot enough in there to discolor metal. I'd be leary of using just anything for fear of it melting....then you'd really have a potential mess. What's the purpose of those?
 
#11 ·
Hmmmm
Clutch is noisy.
Took clutch and belt off, started bike, QUIET.
Took clutch shoes off, put clutch pulley and belt and outer cover on, RACKETY again.
So the culprit is one of the 2 small clutch bearings ☹ not clutch shoes.
Now looking at a Malossi clutch replacement. Just to end this adventure.
BTW those little snubbers are made of some rubber-like substance, flexible.
 
#13 ·
I'm thinking those bumpers are to dampen the sound so it is not metal to metal. My 2012 Hyundai Elantra Touring has a rubber coupler in the electric steering so the two gears do not hit metal to metal. Over time it deteriorates causing a clunk in the steering and some free play. You can get the part on Amazon for less the $7.00. Kind of a pain to get to. My car has a special policy on it 10 years/100K miles.
My 10 years expires 02/16/22 so I made an appointment at the dealer to get it replaced next week. Hope the mechanic don't screw it up and break something else. I'm afraid I suffer from mechanicphobia.
 

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#15 ·
It kinda sucks Suzuki does not sell those rubber bumpers or any part of clutch, here's a cheaper option to Malossi,
possibly a chinese replica, Clutch for 2007 and Newer Suzuki Burgman 400 [21501-05H41-000] - $109.97 : Scooterpartsco.com

IAC, if I had to choose between oem $$$$ or Malossi, Malossi would be it, you can get their clutch + bell for similar cost of oem clutch alone !! Malossi Clutch and Bell for Suzuki Burgman AN400 2007 to Present [5216181] - $199.97 : Scooterpartsco.com

Been trying to source an alternate for that $30+ needle bearing no luck so far, P/N NQ253816U (KOYO) is 25mm ID x 38mm OD x 16mm Wide, found, but not cheaper, yet !!
 
#16 ·
Pressed out the "inner" bearing, cut down a grade 8 washer, insert through the "inner" bearing, it contacts Handwriting Font Rectangle Material property Parallel
the outer race, use a socket approx 3/4 inch o.d. and extension, the 12T press gets it done, and not damaged 😎
 
#18 ·
Pressed out the "inner" bearing, cut down a grade 8 washer, insert through the "inner" bearing ....
WOW, that's and awsome idea, I have lot's of large washers, etc. A fella with no hyd. press(ME), could still use same "cut washer " idea with a threaded rod/nuts/washers, etc and large diameter socket(1.5in.+)/spacer on the outside to draw bearing out into it, kinda of a puller. :unsure: The small ball bearing comes out fairly easy, once you tackle snap ring.

Saving and reusing that needle bearing is great if still good, as it's very $$$, remember numbers/markings face out when reinstalling.

BTW, I"ll share your "washer" idea at SW600 Board (have similar thread over), if you don't mind :unsure:
 
#19 ·
Kinda building on Mike's idea for needle bearing removal and possible reuse, for those with no hyd. press. At $30 + for the needle bearing is worth trying to save it, it's usually a casualty of smaller bearing going bad than a necesiity to replace. IAC either pushing with a press or pulling with threaded rod, keeping everything aligned is key and close inspection of bearing for any damage or deformation. A few typos !!

Rectangle Font Slope Parallel Schematic
:rolleyes:
 
#20 ·
I just finished changing both these bearings. My biggest problem was getting the retainer clip out. After that I heated the pulley with heat gun and took my bearings out of the freezer. The needle bearing virtually fell into place (well a very small tap did it) the roller bearing did require more persuasion. I installed it hitting a piece of 2x4 first then used a socket matching the outer diameter if the bearing. I really didn’t have to hit I’d hard. The trick wether using this method or the very cool puller above is to take advantage of freezing the bearings and heating the housing. I firmly believe this reduces stress on all the parts involved.
With the help of forum members,
this project was a SUCCESS !
 
#21 ·
😃
And an excuse to get a heat gun!
You show the big pulley supported by a big socket, prob a good idea when using a press, don't try to pop the roller bearing out if big pulley supported only on pulley edges
 
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#22 ·
Waiting for new "middle" bearing...

Can someone verify, you press the needle bearing flush with the hub of the big pulley?
The OPEN sides of both small bearings face the grease cavity, regardless of any markings on the bearings?
 
#23 ·
The small ball bearing open side should face the snap ring, the needle bearing should have markings facing out(where you can see them), the needle bearing should be flush or slightly in to the beveled edge .010in/.25mm. The position of needle bearing is not critical, the small ball bearing locates the pulley on the shaft.
 
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#24 ·
My needle bearing has markings in the outer race on one side, the grease seal lip is on other side, it seems the grease seal faces the engine casting, to keep grease inside the clutch guts 🤔
 
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#26 ·
OK.
With 2 yr. old roller bearing, and new middle and outer cover bearings, and plenty of grease, and proper torques, it still makes noise, it has to be the 5 clutch shoes somehow. The noise goes away when on the road.
Time to fill 'er up and ride it 🙂
 
#27 ·
it still makes noise, it has to be the 5 clutch shoes somehow
Dam sorry to "Hear" that :rolleyes:, maybe is time for an aftermarket clutch/ bell, close to/or cheaper the OEM clutch alone o_O I've been looking at this for a while :sneaky: , need to research more :unsure:

 
#28 ·
"Could'ave had a V8"
 
#29 ·
Yeah, I thought of replacing the clutch and bell, what bothers me (besides being cheap 😃) is that I don't see anything wrong with it offhand. Maybe this spring.
 
#33 ·
I know this won't be a popular opinion, but it doesn't matter how long an establishment has had a product or how much they paid for it, they need to sell it for the current going rate, as they will have to pay the higher price to replace what they sell. Say they have an item on the shelf they paid $10 for, selling for $15. 10 years later they sell the item and it costs them $20 to replace it, they just lost $5. You can't do that long before you're out of business.
 
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