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Discussion Starter #1
My '13 Burg 650 is really noisy at less than 3,000 RPM. The engine makes an ugly shudder/clanking noise (like something is loose) when I try and ride at 30 mph (less than 3,000 RPM).

If i switch to manual mode and down shift from 4 to 3 the shudder is gone because RPM is above 3,000.

Why doesn't the CVT downshift automatically if the bike needs to be maintained above 3,000 RPM?

Why exactly does my burg 650 make such ugly noises at low RPM?
 

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Discussion Starter #2
"Try manual mode or power mode at low speed while under load to keep the rpm's up, or a light throttle."

Is it possible to cruise at 30 mph without lugging my engine while in auto mode? so far, the engine lugs like crazy at 30 mph even when I apply a light throttle.

Does my ECU needs adjusting so the CVT downshifts one gear at 30 mph rather than staying in the higher gear?

I think all this engine lugging is bad for the bike and I'm concerned it may damage the engine. I had a friend ride my Burg 650 and he thought it was terrible as well at 30 mph.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Lugging your engine is tough on the main bearings. The connecting rod rides on a thin layer of oil in your main bearings. You can damage the bearings by too much RPM or too low RPM under load. Low RPM under load can cause the film to break down and you will get metal-to-metal contact at the main bearings. This leads to the dreaded "rod knock". Sometimes known as the "death rattle".
 

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There has been some talk on here about Suzuki changing the mapping for the CVT controller on the 2013+ 650 to not downshift as much to help eliminate the engine braking effect that some have complained about on the older bikes. Maybe they went to far the other way and it is not downshifting enough to keep from lugging the engine when running at slower speeds.

I don't have any problem running at 20 to 30 mph on my 07. It rolls along making no more noise than it does at higher speeds.

I guess we need to hear from some other 2013/2014 owners to see if they have problems running at lower speeds. If not then there may be something wrong with your bike that needs looking at.

If it seems to be indicative of the newer bikes than all I can suggest is to engage the power mode when cruising at slower speeds and disengage it when you speed back up.
 

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Mine is a 2013 and it doesn't make any strange noises at low RPMs as far as I can tell, but I can feel a little more vibration in the bike at low engine speed. I'm not sure you can really lug a Burgman while in drive mode because as soon as you twist the throttle a bit the secvt will automatically adjust and raise the RPMs. 3000 RPMs isn't lugging the engine and if that was the case the Chevy Tahoe I drive at work would always be lugging its engine as it only turns 2000 RPMs at 70 mph.

My Burgman will happily putt along at 25 mph which I think is about 2500 RPMs, with no strange noises.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
My 2013 Burg 650 isn't really "lugging" at 30 mph but it is noisy. It seems to be due to the CVT staying in gear 4 rather than going to gear 3. In addition, when I throttle up hard at 30 mph it is very noisy because it is under load.

I tried the manual mode and all vibration/noise is gone as long as I'm over 3,000 RPM.
The manual mode allows me to keep the bike in the sweet spot.

In power mode my 2013 650 is a different beast. There is no noise or rattling because RPMS are always over 3500-4000. But, engine braking is significant in power mode. My 650 is a different bike in power vs auto and I need to really work on getting smooth with the throttle/braking.

In auto or Manual there is no significant engine braking so it is similar to my Burg 400.
Since i'm familiar with the 400 I like the LACK of engine braking better.

I think the engineers tuned the CVT to get the best mileage by changing the shift points and decreasing resistance during movement. The 650 is a pleasure to ride in either manual or auto mode.

As for the noise issue I am able to diminish it somewhat by avoiding the 28-31 mph area or gently keeping the throttle under light load. Under heavy load at 30 mph the engine rattles like mad as it struggles to accelerate from 30-40 mph in 4th gear.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
For those of you who haven't ridden a '13 or '14 Burg 650 the engine braking is very different from your Burgman. Only Power mode has significant engine braking right now.
When I use that mode it feels like I'm riding a wild bull!
 

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I remember driving '04 650 up the garage levels at indicated speeds and it was absolutely smooth. In fact it was smooth in any range and i loved that a lot.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I will ask the dealership to look at my Burg 650 during my 600 mile service visit. Maybe they can reprogram the ECU to shift down from 4 to 3 at 30 mph and shift up from 3 to 4 at 40 mph as this would eliminate the vibrations/noises.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
For those of you with a 2009-2014 Burg 650 what gear are you in at 30 mph? 25 mph?
Are you in gear 3 or gear 4? My bike stays in gear 4 and that is the issue.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
If i run my Burgman 650 in power mode or manual mode will that shorten the lifespan of my CVT? Forgetting gas mileage for a moment will manual mode affect CVT lifespan?

What about "gentle" use of power mode? I am not very good riding in power mode right now as the engine braking takes getting used to.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I ran the bike through the gears 1-5:

It is super quiet and like a jet engine above 3,000 RPMS in all gears.

In gear 1 it is very quiet throughout all RPMs.

In gear 2 it whines, vibrates, sounds bad 2400-2900 RPM
In gear 3 it whines, vibrates sounds bad 2400-2900 RPM
In gear 4... you get the idea.

I think that is normal for my bike; the enigne/CVT likes RPMs above 2900 at which point it is super smooth with no issues. But, in auto mode the bike likes to stay in high gear for fuel efficiency so this means 4th gear sometimes at 25 mph with the end result of a lot of noise. Sometimes in it is 5th gear at 35 mph with low RPM.

Manual mode/Power mode eliminates the issue. Power mode is great so my plan is to use it once I get to 1,000 miles. This way I get SMOOTH engine the entire way which I will switch to auto or manual mode above 50 mph.

In order to get fuel efficiency the engineers allowed the auto to use higher gears with resulting low RPM. I can live with it but I don't much like it.

I may notice the nose/vibration because I don't have any above 3,000 RPMs. Nada. Zilch.
 

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In all probability you are not in either 3rd or 4th gear because it doesn't really have gears. You are probably somewhere between the preprogramed ratios that you get as 3rd or 4th when in manual mode. In auto mode the PCM can make use of all the ratios available in the ECVT not just the preprogrammed ones it uses to mimic gears when in manual mode.

It's been a long time since I actually paid any attention to what rpm the engine was turning when I am running at 25 or 30 mpg so I would have to go ride it to find out. Can't do that right at the minute but will try to a bit later.
 

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:happy1: 9/15
 

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Ok I went out and ran some test. Here are the results with my 07 650.

In D mode at 25 mph - 3000 rpm at 30 mph - 3200 rpm

In manual 3 at 25 mph - 2800 rpm at 30 mph - 3400 rpm

In manual 4 at 25 mph - 2200 rpm at 30 mph - 2600 rpm

Given the 200 rpm steps each mark on the 07 650 digital tach represents those numbers could be +/- 100 rpm off.

So in drive mode at 25 mph it is somewhere between the 2 and 3 manual ratios. At 30 mph it is somewhere between the 3 and 4 manual ratios. But in both cases it is closer to the 3 ratio than the 2 or 4 ratio.

I did not think to put it in power mode and see what it was turning at those speeds.
 

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If I could swap my '07' CVT programming for your '13', I'd do it in an instant, because I detest the needless revving at 3k RPM when the engine has no problems pulling from 2500.

Your dealer can't do squat about the CVT programming, but a SpeedoHealer will give you the extra RPM you want, but aren't needed.

There's absolutely no risk for the engine's bearings at 2500 RPM, it was back in the day with bad bearing materials, low-octane fuel, weak oil pumps and inaccurate ignition timing that lugging was a problem.

Lugging was when people went around street corners in their model A Fords in top gear and 350 rpm, because downshifting an unsyncronised gearbox was a chore.
 

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Not to raise the rpm, the cvt must be on lower gr.
 

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I have to disagree on the contention that you can't lug a modern engine. You can lug any engine and it is not a good thing to do. The rpm that lugging occurs is different for different engines depending on how much torque they create and the curve that they produce that torque at as well as how much load they are trying to accelerate. In general small engines like in our bikes lug at higher rpms than larger engines like found in a car.

Here is a simplistic explanation of what happens when you lug an engine and why it is bad. http://www.seattlepi.com/news/article/Car-Talk-The-pings-and-perils-of-lugging-a-car-s-1200337.php
 

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My 2013 is not unusually noisy or vibe-y at low RPM's. My expectations might be lower, as I know a parallel twin can only be so well balanced. Maybe your throttle bodies need low-RPM balancing?
 
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