[Paul 38Burg650 07]

Finally, (sad), got that snow they have been predicting a number of different times. Started around and kept me home. Picture was at about noon, still some falling at 2PM (about 2 inches I think).

Figured I might as well start a project -- change rear tire on the Burgman 400 (about 6100 miles on the original -- worn out). Going to a Car Tire if I can get it on and seated.

So far things are going pretty good (wheel off).

Did not even have to remove the plastic (what they call the lower leg guard - I call it white and black plastic below the running board). It was a little hard to get to the Clamp Bolt that holds the exhaust pipe together. Nice thing is, you do not have to take the exhaust off the head at the engine.

Now if I can change the tire with my stand and hand tire tools, then get it to seat (might have to take it someplace to get it to seat as I do not have anything except a small portable compressor), then I hope all goes back together OK.

Amazed they do not use a cotter pin on the axle nut. Several things need a good cleaning and maybe some lubrication (Note: Caliper bolts in my hand, and axle spacer and the hole in swing arm the axle comes thru). Plus the rim is a mess (to much salt on roads around here and a little moisture to really mess things up).

 

[Paul 38Burg650 07]

Couple other pictures - one showing new tire beside old tire.

 

[fernando]

Good job, looks to be 1-1.5 hour of work isn't?, pictures show the work very nicely.

 

[Desert Rat]

Paul
So how much trouble did you have getting the CT to seat? What tire did you end up using. I know in another post you might have said but just don't recall.

 

[Paul 38Burg650 07]

More Later ---- As of now and abiout 2 1/2 hr of effort trying to remove the tire from the rim, I cannot get the OEM Tire off the rim.

To answer one question = I probably spent 2 or 3 hrs taking wheel off as I was proceding slowly reading instructions I printed out and it was my first time.

Tire Change at a Stop Pont. I cannot get the old tire off the rim. Got the first bead off and the second one started (about 10 inches pulled up above the rim). I am not able to get my tire irons (the hook) between the bead that is still in the rim and the rim, so cannot pry more above the rim. FRUSTRATING -- I have messed with it at least a couple hours. Try one more trick thing tomorrow -- strap around tire and rim on the side opposite the tire irons to force the other side of the tire more into the center. Maybe give enough room to get the tire iron in on the tire iron side (did that on the NINJA Rear Tire when I had trouble with it).

By the way all the rope in the picture is for two purposes. The first a safety issue in that the ropes hold the rim to the stand in case the clamps get loose. I had that happen one time when doing the NINJA back tire while I was prying, pushing, tugging and the whole tire and wheel went flying on to the cement. The second thing is that I was using some rope to keep pressure on the tire irons and then a screwdriver to hold what I had above the rim and give me hands and the other tire irons to pry.

I don't know if the type tire iron I have is the problem or not. But, I do know it is a 13 inch rim with a flat area in the center 94 or so inches), that raises about an inch to another flat area as you approach the edge of the rim, and then the lip is up about 1/2 inch. The bottom bead is resting in the flat area, but is 1/2 inch (or so) from the edge and once the portion I have stretched over the top of the rim tightens up the portion left on the rim, I cannot get the tire iron hook between the bead and rim to pull it up.

I have never had that much problem before (but have only done two tires in my life - both on the NINJA and I did have a heck of a time with the rear on the NINJA (mostly getting the new tire on the rim and some difficulty getting the second bead off the rim on the original tire).

I do know you have to keep the bead that is on the tire in the center. The tire bead stil int the rim is in the center (the 4 inch flat area). Some rims are more V or U shaped which allows the tire bead to slip up in there more (gives more radius on the other side to get the bead over the rim). This rim is flat in the middle and then widens were the bead site with the final lip at the edge.

Beats me --- May see if I can use a different tire iron (maybe something with less of a hook) or see if Bob can do it (he supposedly has some nice equipment). I seem to be stumped and got wore out trying.

Here is the set up and as far as I got. By the way, not using the center pole and rotating bar because you cannot center the rim over the hole for the bar and the bar would be putting pressure on the spline gear in the hub of the wheel.

You can kind of see the flatness in center of rim and hen the elevated flat part before you get to the lip.

 

[Elliott Larron]

Something about those BrigeStones i always have Lots of trouble trying to get them Off One reason Why i never Buy Hoops Again, I had to Cut mines Of Last Tire change...

Wish i had your Device, i did it by Hand,

Elliott,

 

[itlives]

That tire looks a tad taller -maybe because it's not mounted? If it is taller, you should get a lower rpm at cruising speed.

 

[Quantum Mechanic]

Paul, interesting project you have going on. Good luck with that.

Just one thing I'll mention, and apologies if you are already aware of it, but for everyone benefit...remember to keep all the threads you are going to torque during assembly, dry! I noted you mentioned something about lubing some areas. I appreciate you may not be talking about threaded areas, but just in case. All torque figures are for 'dry' threads unless stated otherwise in the manual. Usually the word 'wet' is used by the torque figure or they just plain tell you to torque with lube. So if Suzuki tells you to use a thread lock or other lubricant in the workshop manual then in those instances it takes into account the reduced friction during applying the torque. For anyone not sure, if you lube any thread during assembly and then apply the normal recommended torque, you may strip or damage the threads as you will over tighten the threads before the torque wrench lets go. This is due to the reduced friction offered by lubed threads requiring more rotation of the component to reach the force needed. So it gets overtightened. Lubing the threads is the one big mistake folks often make believing it helps the process. It unfortunately doesn't and can land you with a big bill. All threads are self lubing these days with the coatings already on them. If threads are going rusty or corroded, just clean them up and put them in dry unless otherwise stated.

 

[Quantum Mechanic]

Just reposted this as left it too late to edit a small but worthwhile point. This is the one to read, ignore the one above.

Paul, interesting project you have going on. Good luck with that.

Just one thing I'll mention, and apologies if you are already aware of it, but for everyone benefit...remember to keep all the threads you are going to torque during assembly, dry! I noted you mentioned something about lubing some areas. I appreciate you may not be talking about threaded areas, but just in case. All torque figures are for 'dry' threads unless stated otherwise in the manual. Usually the word 'wet' is used by the torque figure or they just plain tell you to torque with lube. So if Suzuki tells you to use a thread lock or other lubricant in the workshop manual then in those instances it takes into account the reduced friction during applying the torque. For anyone not sure, if you lube any thread that does not say to use a lube or threadlock during assembly and then apply the normal recommended torque, you may strip or damage the threads as you will over tighten the threads before the torque wrench lets go. This is due to the reduced friction offered by lubed threads requiring more rotation of the component to reach the force needed. So it gets overtightened. Lubing the threads is the one big mistake folks often make believing it helps the process. It unfortunately doesn't and can land you with a big bill. All threads are self lubing these days with the coatings already on them. If threads are going rusty or corroded, just clean them up and put them in dry unless otherwise stated.

 

[Paul 38Burg650 07]

Just reposted this as left it too late to edit a small but worthwhile point. This is the one to read, ignore the one above.

Paul, interesting project you have going on. Good luck with that.

Just one thing I'll mention, and apologies if you are already aware of it, but for everyone benefit...remember to keep all the threads you are going to torque during assembly, dry! I noted you mentioned something about lubing some areas. I appreciate you may not be talking about threaded areas, but just in case. All torque figures are for 'dry' threads unless stated otherwise in the manual. Usually the word 'wet' is used by the torque figure or they just plain tell you to torque with lube. So if Suzuki tells you to use a thread lock or other lubricant in the workshop manual then in those instances it takes into account the reduced friction during applying the torque. For anyone not sure, if you lube any thread that does not say to use a lube or threadlock during assembly and then apply the normal recommended torque, you may strip or damage the threads as you will over tighten the threads before the torque wrench lets go. This is due to the reduced friction offered by lubed threads requiring more rotation of the component to reach the force needed. So it gets overtightened. Lubing the threads is the one big mistake folks often make believing it helps the process. It unfortunately doesn't and can land you with a big bill. All threads are self lubing these days with the coatings already on them. If threads are going rusty or corroded, just clean them up and put them in dry unless otherwise stated.

Thanks -- I had not thought of that, it makes sense. Nice to have folks on here with a knowledge base (for us backyeard mechanics).

Fortunately, as far as I can remember, I have not lubricated any threads. Might have in the areas of corrosion on a couple of CVT Case Bolts. But, I think I put it only on the corroded areas whcih is not where the threads hit the case.

I missed the fine point on the second post (difference than the first post).

Personally, I think the time on the edit thing is ridiculous. Why not let author of a post edit anytime. The EastTNBikers.com site I am on allows it anytime.

 

[Paul 38Burg650 07]

Something about those BrigeStones i always have Lots of trouble trying to get them Off One reason Why i never Buy Hoops Again, I had to Cut mines Of Last Tire change...

Wish i had your Device, i did it by Hand,

Elliott,

I HAVE HAD thoughts about cutting it off.

I wish I could use the Pole and Bar that came with the stand. But, I do not see how as the hub center does not line up with the hole on the stand for the pole to go in. Plus, the hub has a spline gear and a bearing (I can't rememebr if there is a bearing in there are not). Anyway, I cannot see puting pressure in that hub using a pole and bar removal.

By the way -- the last picture I sent with tools stuck in the tire and a black strap laying over the tire is misleading. The strap was used earlier to hold a tire tool close to the spokes (as on the screw driver). It is jsut laying theree now - not doing anything.

But one thing I am going to try is to put a strap around the Rim & Tire in the area where that strap is (opposite the tool area) and tighten it up to maybe compress the tire into the center and allow room to get a tool in the bead and pull up a bit more ebad. I think with just a bit more bead brought up, the thing can be pulled off the rim. Plus add lubricant.

It was 2F here this AM and my basement is really a crawl space (I run a heater down there to take the chill off the littel paved work area) - but I am waiting a while before I go down there). We had 5 inches (guess) of very dry snow here in Knoxville area (I am in Sevier County), so will not rdie for a few days. .

 

[Elliott Larron]

I HAVE HAD thoughts about cutting it off.



But one thing I am going to try is to put a strap around the Rim & Tire in the area where that strap is (opposite the tool area) and tighten it up to maybe compress the tire into the center and allow room to get a tool in the bead and pull up a bit more ebad. I think with just a bit more bead brought up, the thing can be pulled off the rim. Plus add lubricant.

It was 2F here this AM and my basement is really a crawl space (I run a heater down there to take the chill off the littel paved work area) - but I am waiting a while before I go down there). . .

One way is to Heat The tire up Some, Heat seems to work Better if you have a blowTorch Or Heat Gun it will make it easy to Come Off, One thing that i found out About tires as when there COLD there much Harder to Remove them, And Yes? I did Cut One off Once, Just so happened to be a HOOP tire, So Try to heat the tire for at least a few minutes And it will Come off for sure!!!!

And like you said Plus add lubricant....

Same thing for Putting new one On! if you have a big Oven drop the tire in there for 3 Minutes at 350

Letting it Sit in the Sun for an Hour helps All so But you don't have any Sun Today!!

 

[Paul 38Burg650 07]

Did finally get the old tire off. Lubrication and last step used a strap on opposite end of tool area to push tire fwd and make sure it was in center of the rim (it was in center anyway - strap did not help that, but might have helped overall). I doubt it did.

I got the tools in in two spots as before - then secured one spot with screwdriver held by rope, then secured the other tool with rope, then forced, cussed, and forced some more and finally got the tool to get a bite on the bead about 1 1/2 or 2 inches from the tool on my left. Pulled that up on top the rim.

Dick had showed up while I was working to get the last bite on the bead. Can you believe he rode his dirt bike over here?. Glad he did because the two of us were able to get the tire off the rim (pushed and pulled and could see it move a little until it came off). YAHOO.

Several nicks on the rim -- not where the bead sets, just cosmetic.

Now stuck at installing the first bead on the Car Tire (about 8 inches left). Can't get the tire tool in between the bead and the rim (partly because my tools are too long - 16i nch and rim is 13 inch, so handle of the tool hits the tire on the other side).

I AIN'T opening a TIRE CHANGING BUSINESS.

MC Man (call him that cause he rode over here in the snow, maybe should say idiot) showed up in nick of time and helped push and pull the tire off once I got another bite on the bead).

 

[Paul 38Burg650 07]

Forgot picture Upload on last post.

 

[marksbike]

Hey Paul, Your post is timely for me as I bought a set of Hoops for my 2008 400 a few months ago. The front wheel came off in under 6 minutes. (thanks to Mitch's video!) But I chickened out and brought the new tire and wheel over to my Suzuki dealer. For $38.00 out the door they 1, removed old tire from rim, 2, replaced valve, 3, mounted new tire, 4, balanced wheel. For me money well spent! 15 minute drive to shop 15 minute drive home, 6 minute reinstall, DONE! Hope it gos well for you....Next is the rear wheel in a few days. BTW, I got 12,200 miles out of the rear tire.

 

[Elliott Larron]

I Am kind of Concerned about those nicks , Just as long as there not on the Inside your OK! nicks on the inside of the RIM Bead locations and your in Air Leak trouble, But from what i see of your Pictures there Outside Outer Rim, No Body's Perfect i have Nicks all so, Nothing that a little Sand Paper and JB Weld and Paint will Fix.

Job well Done.

Elliott,

 

[Chappy]

I put my tire in a vice to break the bead...install rim protectors and ease her off with tire levers. Mine came off fairly easily applying some soap spray. Both tires in about 1.5 hr first time in. Going back to bridgestone this time.

 

[Steve D UK]

Speaking as someone who has their own tyre changing machine, unless you are doing it as a personal matter-of-pride thing, why don't you just take the wheel to a tyre shop to get them to do it? It can take some considerable time removing and installing a rear wheel on a scooter and that's the hardest and most labour intensive part of the job! Someone removing and installing a tyre to a rim can do it in minutes with the correct equipment and with no risk of damage to either. You've only got to put a small nick in the new tyre or the rim and you'll be kicking yourself!

 

[Elliott Larron]

Speaking as someone who has their own tyre changing machine, unless you are doing it as a personal matter-of-pride thing, why don't you just take the wheel to a tyre shop to get them to do it? It can take some considerable time removing and installing a rear wheel on a scooter and that's the hardest and most labour intensive part of the job! Someone removing and installing a tyre to a rim can do it in minutes with the correct equipment and with no risk of damage to either. You've only got to put a small nick in the new tyre or the rim and you'll be kicking yourself!

Good Point Steve D UK, I had a hard time trying to find some one to do it for me, Speaking of the Cost, i would save Money, I'm gonna check and see how much it cost.

I did not even Balance my Old Tires and Wonder what are the effects... Tyre Balance
Elliott,

 

[Paul 38Burg650 07]

Anyway, as of NOW --- Waterloo Maybe
This has turned into an ordeal (somewhat mind occupying - like old work days trying to fix a SINS)

Some of the issue might be a Car Tire. That was not too bad on the 650 Burgman (Curt did those, but I was there). The second one was a bit harder than the first (a little harder to get it on and a lot harder to seat it).

No-Mar Video http://www.nomartirechanger.com/Articles.asp?ID=256#prettyPhoto/18/


PROGRESS: Maybe - I did get the first bead over the rim last evening. Went back down there and got another bite on the bead (an inch or so) and flipped that over. Then pulled / pushed and the rest of the bead (6 inches maybe slipped over). YAHOO.

Then PANIC again: It looks nearly impossible from what I see to get the beads in the center (or at least away from the upper level position). I gave it a brief try last night:::: Forced a part of the second bead over the rim (maybe a third or less is all I could get) and tried to push the bead into the center. IT IS NOT GOING TO BE EASY. I laid a small block on top of the tire, and tried my strap around the rim/tire (did not seem to help).

The higher level lip is pretty wide (about an inch) and only about 3 inches in the center area (almost flat, but has a little curvature to it). The tire is very stiff and I do not think it will be easy getting the bead or beads into the center. Take a look at it again when it warms up and maybe heat the tire with a hair dryer.

This Car Tire may not work and I am worried about getting the thing off considering the trouble I had getting the MC tire off (the last bead on MC Tire that is).

Curt voluntered to come over (I was still at trying to ge tthe first bead over the rim). I accepeted, but said wait until you are on way home from work and bring your shorter tire tools. THEN, I did manage to get the first bead on.

Maybe he can help analyze the present situation. I hate not being able to put the thing on and also worry about geting it off (considering the trouble I had getting the MC Tire last bead off).

Another ride buddy has a No-Mar set up. He uses the same method to install the final bead on his Cruiser Tires (MC TIRES) install as they show on a No-Mar video - Goldwing Tire. It goes on a lot easier to start with (first part of the last bead pushes down I would say more than 1/2 the tire). Method uses clamps and wood blocks to hold the first part of the bead down and then just tire tools to pry on the rest of the bead. Also, they have nice tire tools (wide, 1 1/2 inch or so) and easy to get a bite on the rim (no rim protectors used). Which, I don't thinnk I will be able to sue them either.

I did not use rim protector on the last part of the take off and likely will not be able to on the final bead install (if we get that far). No way would there be room.