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Discussion Starter #1
I have a 2004 Burgman AN 400 with only 4000 Kms. It has a simple (compared to my VFR) linked brake system in which the front disc is partially enabled by either the front or rear brake levers.

When using the rear brake lever part of the front and all of rear is enabled and there is no noise or other problems at all.

When using the front brake lever part of the front and none of the rear is enabled but there has started to be a noticeable grinding sound. This sound is not as bad (I think) as you might get if the pads are wearing low, or the disc is ruined, and it did not do that until recently.

AFAICT there is no excessive disc wear, puck wear, disc glaze, pulsing at the lever under operation, or any other signs of problems. In fact as mentioned, it is noticeable only when the front brake lever is enabled in spite of the fact the rear brake lever enables part of the front system too.

I don’t really want to take the whole front brake apart if I don’t have to but, I cannot confirm with certainty that no damage is being done. I have not yet cleaned the front brake assembly (with brake cleaner) but I guess that's the first thing I should try.

Given the low Kms, the very good condition of the bike, and that the brakes have been used in typical non-demanding conditions, what might I do if brake cleaning fails to improve the noise?

Very much thanks!
 

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I have an 04 with 7K miles and it has always made a metalic grinding noise from the front brake. I have always considered it a function of metalic brake pads and have never paid it any mind.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
That’s interesting. If they are metallic (are we sure on this?) one would assume the rear caliper make the same noise (unless the rear is not metallic?).

Also given that the rear brake is linked to *part* of front then that should cause front brake noise too, but it does not (unless only *part* of the front uses metallic?).

In any case my AN400 did not make this sound until recently, either that or I did not notice it (very unlikely), or the sound was there all along but has become more pronounced over time (quite possible, but that does not address the question at hand).

Thoughts? Anyone else hear the same from using only the front brake lever?
 

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Mine has made this noise from time to time - even when just pushing with engine off. I investigated with a complete strip out of pads, gave everything a good clean out - including the disc - no different the noise remained. My conclusion - there was nothing inherently wrong and no damage was being done.

Try the engine off push - if you have the noise then, it is just the normal pad drag resonance.

I would not worry about it. :wink:
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Hi Norm nice to hear from you!

I exhume you mean "normal pad drag resonance" without any brake lever application?

I have had the bike rolling forward with the motor off, it does not make the front brake noise in question, unless the front brake lever is actually applied.

_It does not make the front brake noise in question (or any unusual rear brake noise) when only the rear brake lever is applied, despite the linked system applying part of the front brake.

_The rear brake does make the characteristic brake pad drag sound without the rear brake lever being applied.

_The front brake does make the characteristic brake pad drag sound without the front brake lever being applied.
 

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Wild Ass Theory. :lol: :lol:

If it only occurs when the front brake alone is actuated, but not when both brakes are applied (linked) then perhaps it's the result of the forward wgt shift? If, big if, that's the case perhaps it's a bearing noise not a brake noise?

Now I need an emoticon that has a target on it. :lol: :lol: Comments?
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Very doubtful for three reasons:

I know pretty well the difference in sounds and response: wheel bearing versus brakes noise, this sounds very "brake-like" if you know what I mean.

The noise is directly proportional to the amount of braking applied, irrespective of the amount (or lack) of forward weight biasing.

At 4,000 Kms, the chance of a wheel bearing failure that is only noticeable when the front brake is applied to the point of forward weight bias is rather slim.

Cool thought though!

PS FWIW IMHO: forward weight bias is not necessarily always the same proportionally to the amount of front brake applied. There are other factors that dictate this bias such as the amount of time the front brakes have been applied, and likely the logistics of the rear brake-linked brake usage.
 

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Brake noise uhm...OK brakes make noise if are grabby, or have a rythmic occillation. So I would ask, "Is it possible that the disc is warped?"

If you notice that it only makes noise when you apply pressure to the right brake lever only then I can assume it only makes this usually noise if there is a greater amount of force applied to the front brake. Are the discs normally worn or do they appear glazed?

You could have developed this problem if you ran through a puddle of oil by chance and contaminated the brake pads. This could have glazed them. I think before you start applying any degreaser to them first examine the disc and rub your fingers over the surface and also with a very clean white tissue. See if there is any oily residue. If there is then you may have to remove the pads and degrease them. I would degrease them first (trichloroethylene is the active ingredient in brake cleaner so do this in a well vented place like outside) and then basically sand them to make the surface rough again. Rebedding them when they are used a couple of miles. I know you don't want to take things apart but you may not have any choice.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Hi Tim hope you're doing fine,
The brakes are neither grabby, nor have a rhythmic oscillation. It seems very unlikely that the disc is warped. Disc wear is normal and there is no glazing. I am considering removing the pads and degreasing them etc. but yuck, I hate working on brakes :(

TeeTee http://www.bcsportbikes.com/forum/showt ... h+cut+file has said in an earlier post on brakes not to use sandpaper
Next, use a rough cut file (do NOT use sandpaper for this) to shave the shiny surface off the old pads. Be a little ruthless here but don't reshape the pad to any real extent, you just want to scuff off the shiny surface thoroughly.
I am not sure what you meant by
If you notice that it only makes noise when you apply pressure to the right brake lever only then I can assume it only makes this usually noise if there is a greater amount of force applied to the front brake.
 

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Okay you are still worried! :wink:

Bite the bullet time matey - you need evidence. There has been enough theorising and speculating, so get your rubber gloves on and whip those pads out and give them a thorough optical bollocking.

We are looking for differences. :)
 

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Isn't the front brake set up with 2 sets of pads, one operating by itself, and the other operating with the rear? You've got something going on with the front only set. Either they are worn, cocked, or you have a foreign particle in them...

Can you see the wear indicators? It is feasible that you have worn the pads down. You might have been dragging for a while due to a caliper or master cylinder malfunction, you may have a heavy brake hand, or you may have had them get too hot/wet/whatever...

Put it onto the centerstand. Lift the front wheel off the ground, and shove a cardboard box or something under the body to be able to keep the front wheel off the ground. Get down close to the caliper so that you can see it move, and spin the wheel. Do it again and have someone apply the front brake. Can you hear it, and find it by it's sound? Is the caliper moving out straight? If you're not sure - then pull the caliper and examine the pads.

Are you getting any marks on your disc (foreign particle)? It can be hard to see the inside edge - but it could simply be an alignment tang from a brake pad coming into contact when the brake is enabled.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Well I’ll bite the bullet time-wise and do the deed. I’ll report back if they are worn, cooked, glazed, or foreign gunked (most likely). As mentioned the disc is in fine shape.

You know it’s weird, I like playing with motors but brakes, kinda not. Maybe it’s subconscious because brakes slow you down, while engines speed you up :)

Anywho I got all the toys today, 2 / 525 g cans of aerosol brake cleaner, and 256 ml Permatex Disc Brake Caliper Lube. Enough for all the bikes if and when.

The only issue left is: if I figure that the pads need to be resurfaced, should I use sandpaper or a rough cut file. Some say not to use sandpaper to shave the shiny surface off the old pads.
 

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Hmm - I don't know, I've never resurfaced brake pads. I'd try to isolate which pad (which side of the caliper) is making the noise before taking anything apart though. Good luck. :)
 

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Hello Chumly,

Good to hear from you again. Did you get rid of the VFR? Anyway, I was trying to make some sense of your problem and when I interpret what I read, it seems when you applied braking only on the right lever then this is when you hear the noise. Only under this circumstance. Therefore only when the full force of braking with the front brake does this noise occur. It suggests to me large forces only produce the sound. OK?

Using a file or sand paper will yield the same result. If you disassemble and notice that the pads are "shiny" then do whatever it takes to break this shine. A file or sand paper, I really don't think it matters. I would have no hesitation using sand paper but wash the pads either with soapy water or brake cleaner. Just remove the residue of grit or oil if thats the case. Be careful using the brake cleaner in an enclosed area like your garage. Trichloroethylene is not good for your kidneys or if you have ashma or any respiratory conditions take care here.

Listen I would love to drop by and give you a hand with this but Wednesday night is the only night I'm free. I have a great set of tools (torque wrench, full set of sockets and others). I'll PM you with a phone number so you can contact me during the day.
 

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Dear Chumly

I know you are still worried and intend to examine the brake assembly.

I just found this thread on another forum which is NOT appicable to your problem but may serve as a timely reminder for those with higher mileages and why it is wise to check as per the servicing specifications.

Message: 2
Date: Tue, 09 Aug 2005 13:18:46 -0000
From: "jpreynolds1946" <[email protected]>
Subject: 1 set of brake pads are missing on my 400

Hi All
My Burgman 400 just turned 18,000 miles last week.Since the beginning of the year I have noticed a lot of squeeking and grinding when I stop.When I had my new back tire put on I had the mechanic check my brakes front and back and I was told lots of brake pad left.Yesterday I brought it in and was told the pads look fine.Then they proceeded to take off the whole caliper unit for closer inspection and lo and behold no pads left on the upper section of the caliper unit.The Burgman 400 uses 4 seperate pads on the front brake.The top ones are hard to see with out taking off the unit.Has anyone else experienced this rapid wear? I always use both sets of brakes usually equall.

Best to all
Jim Reynolds
 

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Chumly said:
That’s interesting. If they are metallic (are we sure on this?) one would assume the rear caliper make the same noise (unless the rear is not metallic?).

Also given that the rear brake is linked to *part* of front then that should cause front brake noise too, but it does not (unless only *part* of the front uses metallic?).

In any case my AN400 did not make this sound until recently, either that or I did not notice it (very unlikely), or the sound was there all along but has become more pronounced over time (quite possible, but that does not address the question at hand).

Thoughts? Anyone else hear the same from using only the front brake lever?
I'm not sure about metalic, but mine does the same thing. As near as I can tell there is nothing wrong. You just get used to it, it comes and goes.
 

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I notice the slight "resonance" when rolling the bike back without the engine on as well...though I haven't heard it while driving.

The front Brake Pads will wear faster than the rear ones....just as they do on an auto...most of the time the factor (on a car) is 2 sets (sometimes 3) of brake pads will be used on the front before the back ones need to be replaced.
I assume the Burgmans will have the same time frames...though the Top set may be even more often.

As I recall the Right lever operates the Top Half of the Front Caliper exclusively.

The Left lever operates the Bottom Half of the Front and All of the Rear...however it is not equal...30% of the pressure is directed to the Front and 70% directed to the Rear.

My concern would be checking the Rotor for Scoring...if its scored you need to replace it.

If the Rotor is Scored New Pads would VERY quickly wear to Conform to the "hills and valleys" on the Rotor Face...sometimes the "Hills" are such that it eats through the pad to the underlying metal and you get grinding again...though only on a very tiny spot..not the full face of the rotor. It will affect brake function and speed the wear of both pads and rotor dramatically.

Very Badly Scored rotors and pads can even Seize and Jam when applying the brakes Locking the Wheel up leading to a Spill or Worse.

The Big Thing though is if you hear the "metal on metal"grinding when you apply the brakes STOP DRIVING THE BIKE!!! It could mean the difference between just a set of Pads and having to replace the Rotor as well.

And I've noticed Suzuki is VERY Proud of their Parts...a set of Pads for an International Truck (4 pads..2 for each wheel on an axle) are CHEAPER than ONE of the Two sets needed for the Front of a Burgman.
 

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NormanB said:
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 09 Aug 2005 13:18:46 -0000
From: "jpreynolds1946" <[email protected]>
Subject: 1 set of brake pads are missing on my 400

Hi All
My Burgman 400 just turned 18,000 miles last week.Since the beginning of the year I have noticed a lot of squeeking and grinding when I stop.When I had my new back tire put on I had the mechanic check my brakes front and back and I was told lots of brake pad left.Yesterday I brought it in and was told the pads look fine.Then they proceeded to take off the whole caliper unit for closer inspection and lo and behold no pads left on the upper section of the caliper unit.The Burgman 400 uses 4 seperate pads on the front brake.The top ones are hard to see with out taking off the unit.Has anyone else experienced this rapid wear? I always use both sets of brakes usually equall.

Best to all
Jim Reynolds
This described exactly what happened with my K3... now the squeaking sounds have reduced dramatically.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I took the two cans of cleaner, a bunch a rags, a toothbrush, and other assorted "implements of destruction", and without any disassembly, fully cleaned all the braking parts such as disk, pucks, caliper etc.

The grinding all but disappeared, don’t you love a happy simple ending?
Thanks to all who posted, the Burg is happily thumping about :)

As mentioned @ 4,000 Kms = 2,400 miles there was a very low possibly of even premature wear, but as NormanB aptly said Forewarned is foretold (or some such).

Check your brakes Burgerittes 8)
 

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One of my little "Tools" is a Telescoping Dental Mirror...I use it to check the Brake Pads without getting down on my stomach on the floor...

It also works great for checking all the lights...it reaches out beyond both the front and rear of the bike and I just have to stay in one spot and flip the switches/levers to check all of them.
 
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