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Bored with retirement and ready for a real depraved challenge (Solo Coast to Coast nonstop)

5K views 84 replies 9 participants last post by  Dave_J 
#1 ·
Greetings all from "The Cave" somewhere deep in the Mojave Desert, USA. I just joined your group as I have 99% decided that I will be using the drive system from a 650 (and other borrowed parts) to power my next adventure. I am in the process of building a single seat enclosed reverse three wheeler (with A/C) . The vehicle is to be 39 inches tall, 42 inches wide, and 15 - 16 feet long. It has a frontal area of 11.375 sq feet and a predicted CD of around .20. Depending on the fuel mileage it gets during testing, and based on what I have read fellow members are getting, the fuel load will be between 50+ and 70+ gallons. By now you are probably thinking " how did this guy escape from the sanitarium?". Easy, they released me due to the pandemic... I know, bad joke. If any one here has suggestions, comments, critiques etc..... please, let them fly. Stay safe all.
Automotive design Vehicle Technology Car Concept car
 
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#3 ·
Hi Paul. Welcome to the forums.

I may move this to another part of the forum after a while. I will let you know.

You will find the members willing to share info freely. A few members will share too much too.
We have a few members that really load up their scooters and go on thousand mile camping trips, before Covid19 hit.

The general size on the Burgman 650 engine module has not changed from 2002 through 2018 so if you find a cheap 2003 for 'mock-up' but then want a 2015 for its better gas mileage you can always sell the 2003's parts. If you were closer I'd loan you a 2003 650 engine module.
 
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#5 ·
I did a 2500 mile trip over 5 days in 2007 on my Burgman 650. I had about 175 pounds of gear, my 200 pounds body and the 650's 625 pounds. I went from sea level near Seattle to Billings Montana at 70 - 80 MPH and got 47 MPG for that part. Yes that is over the Cascade's and the Rocky's Continental Divide so not a walk in the park. I did a full tank run at 95- 105 MPH going down to Wyoming and got 35 MPG for that tank. But the tank fillup before that I may not have gotten as full as normal, it was dark, I was tired and in a hurry to get to camp.

These 650's run on the lowest grade regular gas 'World Wide' and do not care if you are at sea level or at 11,000 high mountain pass in Colorado.
 
#6 ·
Excellent information. I plan to maintain posted speed (don't want to get pulled over as it will stand out) but in places like Texas that is 80 mph.. so I plan on the trip taking between 34 - 36 hours..... but it is great to hear about how it did climbing the Rocky's and the high speed with the weight. Thanks.
 
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#7 ·
bristowest ,

Have you ridden a B650 yet ? If not get a road worthy one now and spend sometime on it. It will prove to be a great parts chaser for your new build and you will know what you have when it’s time to move all the parts over.

This here is a treasure chest of info for the 1st gen B650.
 
#8 ·
One thing to touch on during the configuring phase is tires.
You will be going for low rolling resistance to maximize the gas mileage so no FAT tires.

On front I'd go with a tall wheel and a skinny tire rated for the load.

But most rear Motorcycle tires that fit the rear may not last for a San Diego to Jacksonville and back to San Diego. We get between 5,000 miles on one, some make it to 6,500 miles but this is pushing a wet weight of around 825 pounds with rider. You will be pushing more weight and the tire may wear faster. Could just change rear tire in Jacksonville.

The factory Bridgestone is a 160/60 HR 14 Radial. There are a few other brands.

Some run a 150/70 SR 14 that is taller (0.71") and not as wide so it may boost the gas mileage but they are Bias ply but that does not seem to effect the ride or the gas mileage.

I am on a 155/65 HR 14 Car Tire. It is also taller (0.37") and will last 25,000 miles. It gives a smoother ride and knocks the RPM down a few, almost 16 less rev's per mile so for your trip it will be 37,600 less revs in the 2350 miles, saving 40 miles.

A 165/65 SR 14 is even taller (0.89") so 36.9 less rev's per mile saving 93 miles for the trip. May not add up enough to pay back.
 
#18 ·
Agreed.... low-friction tires are a must. Keeping the rev's down would be an added plus... not to mention the smooth ride. I'm looking at Michilin's Premier A/S and Energy Saver A/S (175/65R15), Bridgestone's Ecopia EP422 plus(175/65R15), and Dunlop's Enasave 01 A/S (145/65R15 or 165/65 R14).
 
#14 ·
OK, I looked at the FAQs and the commonly used terms, I tried filling in the blanks but all I could come up with were creative cuss words.... what does swmbo mean?
 
#10 ·
Welcome. Love your design, with the exception of the open front wheels, we get rain, dust, dirt and mud up here.
 
#13 ·
Where abouts are you? I toyed with the idea of bringing the wheels in and enclosing them (similar to VW's ARVW) but I would give up too much needed space if I wanted to maintain my basic size. So, I look at the outrigger tires as an homage to the trike that originally got me thinking about this odyssey...
 

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#15 ·
Indycycle by Jamieson G DuRette

Most members on here did not read your Facebook back story so they may think this will be a daily ride.
 
#20 ·
On the rear, it is a 14 inch rim but Motorcycle 14" is really 14.25" so a Car tire is a tight fit and needs special care to fit.

That said, a 165/65 14 is about as wide as you will need. I can not see needing a wider foot print.

This is not a recommendation to anyone to try this but you can fit a 185/60 14 if you grind down the sides of the swing arm. You don't need to grind much, just the factory foundry casting flash at the molds two seams. This tire is 1.18 inches TALLER. But it will drop the RPM about 260 per minuet. I ran that size tire until my 2015 crash that almost killed me. But THAT tire was not the crash cause, I got hit at 70 MPH by a flying tire off another car.

The swing arm pocket is the limiting factor on how big you can go.
 
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#26 ·
I was thinking of having a wider swing arm made to accommodate the car tire. I like the idea of the taller tire.... remember, in racing you don't shave seconds off a lap.... you shave tenths of a second at a time.....:)
 
#21 ·
Welcome sir @bristowest
You have an ambitious plan indeed. Yep, there will be several here that can offer more knowledge and experience than you can imagine. If you need to know it, this is the place for all things Burgman. I am looking forward to reading more about plans for your streamliner. Keep us posted on it please.
 
#27 ·
Will do. As for food and bathroom breaks.... good old fashioned energy bars and snacks for food. I will also have a portable refrigerator within reach in the cockpit for stuff. Having just gotten out of a 30 day stay in the hospital for a shattered hip, right arm etc... I realized that as much as I hate them, a catheter (with a shut off valve so I can exit the trike in Jacksonville) with a 12" square receptical for the urine is a hard fact of the ride. but hey.... I never said I was normal....
 
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#22 ·
Interesting idea. I like the idea of long distance riding and think a 650 Burgman is not necessarily a bad choice. Carrying 50 gallons of gas is in my opinion too much of a weight penalty even on three wheels. I've toyed with the idea of adding an extra tank on mine for some of my long distance rides but would add just enough to get the fuel stops to about 300 miles or so. My bike usually gets in the area of 42-48 mpg or even a little less depending on the wind and other conditions when buzzing along at highway speeds for extended distances. My way of thinking adding about four gallons would give enough range to easily cover the 300 hundred mile target I would shoot for and not substantially affect my ride or handling. The no food or restroom breaks would be really hard to overcome.
 
#24 ·
The goal is to do this nonstop for record. Stopping at a red light does not count as a stop unless you do servicing at that stop.

I guess his chase vehicle could have some sort of moving while fueling the trike.

I will merge his NEWBEE post soon.
 
#29 ·
Here is an idea of the rear of the craft with the idea of limiting drag for the best CD I can get. As for the diffusers... I realize it is sparkle farkle and I don't need them but I just want to give it some eye candy appeal while in public....

Tire Automotive tire Vehicle Yellow Formula libre
The black lines on the spine indicate the height change every ten inches.
 
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#30 ·
The nice thing about Reverse Trikes is if you want an engine change just cut the mounting tabs off and weld in the new ones.
So if the Burgman 650 does not work just cobble up a mount for the new engine and swing arm.
Where the Burgman 650 is nice is the swing arm is part of the engine modual and requires no frame mount
 
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#32 ·
The nice thing about Reverse Trikes is if you want an engine change just cut the mounting tabs off and weld in the new ones.
So if the Burgman 650 does not work just cobble up a mount for the new engine and swing arm.
Where the Burgman 650 is nice is the swing arm is part of the engine modual and requires no frame mount
Welcome.

Not sure if you’ve got to the internal details yet, but:

One small but useful trick for space limited lightweights is to make the pedals adjustable instead of the seat :)

Appliying your upholstery to the bulkhead/floor reduces required height and shaves of the weight of adding a rigid seat frame which is just repeating metalwork you already in the structure.
The adjuster mechanism can also be less robust and the movement is to encased in the usually empty space in the smaller front sectional - so you get to reduce vehicle length and in the largest section and length over all. If desired, you get to use a smaller entry/exit opening too.

Keep parasite drag items and centre of pressure to the rear as much as possible, it will help with stability and crosswind handling.

It looks like you know what you are doing but we don’t know your experience, sorry if this is obvious, but be careful not to make a wing. That includes lift in all directions, not just up.

Good luck and keep us posted.
Thank you for the excellent suggestions... well thought. I was looking at a formula ford type set up for the pedals. my intent is to have them fixed in place as I probably will be the only one in the trike. But I like your idea of adjustable assuming the weight isn't that much of a factor.
The nice thing about Reverse Trikes is if you want an engine change just cut the mounting tabs off and weld in the new ones.
So if the Burgman 650 does not work just cobble up a mount for the new engine and swing arm.
Where the Burgman 650 is nice is the swing arm is part of the engine modual and requires no frame mount
I am open to any and all ideas that will help me complete this journey. Keep them coming, please.
Welcome.

Not sure if you’ve got to the internal details yet, but:

One small but useful trick for space limited lightweights is to make the pedals adjustable instead of the seat :)

Appliying your upholstery to the bulkhead/floor reduces required height and shaves off the weight of adding a rigid seat frame which is just repeating metalwork you already have in the structure.
The adjuster mechanism can also be less robust and the movement is encased in the usually empty space in the smaller front sectional - so you get to reduce length and in the largest section and length over all. If desired, you get to use a smaller entry/exit opening too.

Keep parasite drag items and centre of pressure to the rear as much as possible, it will help with stability and crosswind handling.

It looks like you know what you are doing but we don’t know your experience, sorry if this is obvious, but be careful not to make a wing. That includes lift in all directions, not just up.

Good luck and keep us posted.
I am planning the seat in the cockpit to be memory foam over the fuel tank and floor pan to keep it light. As for the dreaded parasites I haven't checked the vehicle code yet for side view mirrors yet but the ones I'm going to use are less than an inch tall (I;m going to use reverse and side cameras hooked up to small monitors on the dash which will contain an Apple based computer screen for all necessary gauges etc... Not having access to a wind tunnel, what would you think of a rear vertical fin similar to a Le Mans car for advertising space? Any aerodynamic type savy people out there riding Burgman"s? Land vehicle Vehicle Race car Car Sports car
 
#31 · (Edited)
Welcome.

Not sure if you’ve got to the internal details yet, but:

One small but useful trick for space limited lightweights is to make the pedals adjustable instead of the seat :)

Appliying your upholstery to the bulkhead/floor reduces required height and shaves off the weight of adding a rigid seat frame which is just repeating metalwork you already have in the structure.
The adjuster mechanism can also be less robust and the movement is encased in the usually empty space in the smaller front sectional - so you get to reduce length and in the largest section and length over all. If desired, you get to use a smaller entry/exit opening too.

Keep parasite drag items and centre of pressure to the rear as much as possible, it will help with stability and crosswind handling.

It looks like you know what you are doing but we don’t know your experience, sorry if this is obvious, but be careful not to make a wing. That includes lift in all directions, not just up.

Good luck and keep us posted.
 
#33 ·
On the gauge package, the Burgman's ECM requires the factory dash to be in place. It is not a bad dash for most. The fuel gauge would be worthless but the temp, speed, clock, RPM, gear and odo will be OK for your build.

A fact about the Speedo and Odometer on these bikes. With the 160/60 14 factroy tire the speedo is about 9-10% under so if you are doing 65 MPH you really are doing 59 MPH. The 165/65 14 Car tire gets you closer to like 6% under. The 150/70 14 motorcycle tire is about 5%. The 185/60 is about dead right but now the ODO is over reporting about 2%.

I would use the factory Burgman's 4 gallon fuel tank as the fuel injector pump buffer. Just gravity feed from the 60 gallon cell to it.
 
#34 ·
On the gauge package, the Burgman's ECM requires the factory dash to be in place. It is not a bad dash for most. The fuel gauge would be worthless but the temp, speed, clock, RPM, gear and odo will be OK for your build.

A fact about the Speedo and Odometer on these bikes. With the 160/60 14 factroy tire the speedo is about 9-10% under so if you are doing 65 MPH you really are doing 59 MPH. The 165/65 14 Car tire gets you closer to like 6% under. The 150/70 14 motorcycle tire is about 5%. The 185/60 is about dead right but now the ODO is over reporting about 2%.

I would use the factory Burgman's 4 gallon fuel tank as the fuel injector pump buffer. Just gravity feed from the 60 gallon cell to it.
I wondered about Burgman's requiring their own dash to be used. But like you said, it cover pretty much a lot of what I need. I think I;m still going to incorporate the Apple based dash into the works and have it calibrated to to the tire diameter for an accurate speed reading and odo reading. (I'm not a fan of trying to remember tach speeds.) the only other external gauge I'm going to use is a Hobb's meter for actual running time. I got so used to having one in Air Ops that I don't think I could "fly" (low avoiding radar) without one. I hadn't even thought of the actual fuel tank all ready in place. excellent, that's my reserve tank.
 
#35 ·
I do know a Burgman 400 will push a trike very well but not sure it would push a 1100 - 1500 pound trike at 80 MPH in Texas I-10. But you will have burnt 14 gallons by the time you get to El Paso so 87 less pounds. Your 'Miles per Gallon' will get better and better the farther you go @ 6.2 pounds per gallon.

Its CVT is different than the 650s by a lot. It uses a Kevlar reenforced rubber belt and a sliding weight Vairator. You can get a better Dr Pulley or Masoli Clutch and they also have different rollers or sliders for the Vairator. It has like 37 Horsepower compared to the 650's 54 HP. Over all it is at least 100 pounds lighter.

Then there is the Honda 600cc Silverwing CVT scooter. You could ask Joe Sarasota over on the Facebook page if it would work as that is what he is running.
 
#36 ·
I;ll look into the Honda 600cc Silverwing..... but so far the 650 is the leader and this group is really all ready being an amazing help! Here is what I've been working on today... the front and rear of the trike lined in 10" increments.
Transport Automotive design Vehicle Car
 
#38 · (Edited)
I’m not a big fan of memory foam, but I know many are - and it’s your vehicle not mine.

It was designed for space and in my opinion that’s where it should stay :)

Comfiest lightweight seat I ever made was an idea stolen from a 1939’s car.
Very little padding/foam. Instead, a heavy material had thin bars in side seams. rubber hoops linked this to side supports like an old fashioned sun lounger’s springs). Minimal foam, mostly there to stop the prints biting your ass.

Local cushioning was good but you also got a subtle all over suspension (to isolate from stiff vehicle suspension)

Bungies would also work and easy to obtain (mine were individual hoops with wire hooks into drilled holes)
My top and bottom edges were fixed for support, not sprung like this lounger - and I had way more springs/hoops.



 
#60 ·
Design it so that it will engage a rear bumper located at DOT-spec height (and assume it's raised a bit from the struck vehicle braking and nosing down) and transmit the impact load aft. The engagement face can be completely inside the body shell. That is, your "front bumper" doesn't have to stick out. Just sacrifice the front part of your vehicle up to that point.

You want to stop the vehicle from "submarining" completely under a car it strikes from the rear (trike has to stop before your head hits their rear bumper from underneath). You might want to consider having the structure above your legs hardened to prevent crushing, while having the impact-absorption happen above that zone, possibly by converting impact energy into lifting the struck vehicle as though the front end of the trike was a splitting maul. This is the mirror image of how the old VW Vanagons handled front impact: they had the bumper and front subframe crush back to the front axle, while the passenger compartment rode up and over the trunk/hood of the struck vehicle. So instead of riding over the struck vehicle, you're trying to force it off the ground.
 
#45 ·
Interesting designs. The idea that caught me the most was the wheel shrouds..... wonder how wide they have to be in order for the trike to turn for a decent turning radius?
 
#42 ·
Your regs will probably say that wheels cannot extend beyond bodywork - so basically you need some sort of wheel covering even if it’s only cycle mudguard/hugger style.
Check because I haven’t stayed up to date on US regs and one-offs regs may be different to production regs in your state.

Wheels have 2 aero shadows, one as you’d expect behind the wheel which might benefit from a teardrop tail, another because they spin disturbing flow across the sides (or the top is travelling forward faster than the bottom depending on which way you want to look at it) creating extra vertices and disturbance - enclosing them can help with that but that is approaching diminishing returns territory. Up to you.

Weirdly, early “streamlined” body vehicles had worse drag than the “front outrigger” ones because the flow between outrigger and narrow radiator offered less resistance.

There are EV and hyper miler forums/groups that help each and share plans or pitfalls and tips.
Smoothing looks pretty good with what you have.
 
#43 ·
If you were to go to that reverse trike forum and follow two real good builds they can answer many questions.


Liteway and Captian America both have a lot of good information. And Cpt Am will give you his 'Solidworks' CAD files if you ask.

Here is Liteway's trike. There is a walk around vid too. Notice the front wheel aero pods.

Land vehicle Vehicle Formula libre Car Motor vehicle


 
#47 ·
If you were to go to that reverse trike forum and follow two real good builds they can answer many questions.


Liteway and Captian America both have a lot of good information. And Cpt Am will give you his 'Solidworks' CAD files if you ask.

Here is Liteway's trike. There is a walk around vid too. Notice the front wheel aero pods.

View attachment 91746

Is Captain America in this group or the other ? Solidworks would be fantastic...
'
 
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