Suzuki Burgman USA Forum banner

61 - 80 of 85 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,464 Posts
Design it so that it will engage a rear bumper located at DOT-spec height (and assume it's raised a bit from the struck vehicle braking and nosing down) and transmit the impact load aft. The engagement face can be completely inside the body shell. That is, your "front bumper" doesn't have to stick out. Just sacrifice the front part of your vehicle up to that point.

You want to stop the vehicle from "submarining" completely under a car it strikes from the rear (trike has to stop before your head hits their rear bumper from underneath). You might want to consider having the structure above your legs hardened to prevent crushing, while having the impact-absorption happen above that zone, possibly by converting impact energy into lifting the struck vehicle as though the front end of the trike was a splitting maul. This is the mirror image of how the old VW Vanagons handled front impact: they had the bumper and front subframe crush back to the front axle, while the passenger compartment rode up and over the trunk/hood of the struck vehicle. So instead of riding over the struck vehicle, you're trying to force it off the ground.

Don’t forget the Spare Tire/ Windshield Washer Power as a little cushion while navigating the future trees to hug......Oh how I miss my Westy.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
18,726 Posts
Paul, I will suggest you get together with Craig Vetter and do some chatting. He is a very nice person and will talk. His wife Carol is also very nice. They are in the Carmel CA area so it is a bit of a ride for you but you would be amazed to walk thru his design shop. While maybe no money for your research, Craig may sponsor you and allow you to have his Logo on your trike.

Craig has slowed down some since his Aug 2015 crash but he is still sharp as a straight razor. He's most likely forgotten more than I have ever learned.

A link to his gas mileage challange: Craig Vetter, designer and inventor of the Windjammer fairing,Triumph Hurricane Motorcycle Streamliners and fuel economy motorcycles

The last CaringBridge entry was
Carol Vetter said:
August 12, 2019
Journal Entry by Carol Vetter — August 11, 2019
August 12, 2015 Craig got slammed by a deer while riding his streamliner just a mile from the house. He continues to improve however slow. Every now and then we have to look back at where he has come from. It's a miracle. We continue to praise God for His faithfulness.
Today he rides the exercise bicycle 13 - 14 miles (an hour) 3 times a week. He has begun walking down to the shop and back several times on days when he doesn't ride. His thinking and reasoning continues to improve although his memory is still spotty.
We flew back to Illinois to spend a few days with Craig's brother Bruce and his family and his sister Arlene and 2 of her grands. Although he hates to use it, Craig zipped through O'hare airport after our flight with no trouble at all. It was delightful. He spent a few hours with his favorite college professor, Ed Zagorski who was just up the road..
Craig still loves to hear from all of you. Just the other day he called Mike and Sue Jones up in Washington state. Mike was a college friend and Craig's first business manager. Again, it was delightful... dear friends we had lost touch with.
He checks his email and even looks at his FB account occasionally. Send him a note or give him a call, he'd love to hear from you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
Discussion Starter #63
Don’t forget the Spare Tire/ Windshield Washer Power as a little cushion while navigating the future trees to hug......Oh how I miss my Westy.
I've gotta admit the honest truth here. (remember, I may have breathed in a little too much turbine exhaust during my time in Air Ops.....) My objective is to make it across. Weight is critical and, except for the driver/fuel cage, I am going to be light on everything for this one vehicle. Future ones will be more heavily reinforced with driver safety being the primary concern. I intend to be protected front and rear for a majority of the trip with "chase" cars (read that friends who are ALMOST as crazy as me). I'm hoping that during the route I am joined for a while (be it 10 miles or 100 miles) by well wishing motorcyclists and others. I will be available via CB and other methods of communication for those not officially in the journey. So it should be fun as long as I have my cans of dehydrated water and a spare can of elbow grease I'll be fine...
On a serious note, I was given a suggestion regarding the out-rigger type front I have. the comment was about the air drag they will cause. what do you think of me enclosing them so at least the wheels are swoopy and make the area a little cleaner? Something like the Aptera's?
50a6c4caf3d64ef0f4f9348c63ef71d6.jpg

Maybe even bring them in a little bit more (might affect the stability of the ride...) like this... 3-19 aptera final_214.jpg
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
Discussion Starter #64
Paul, I will suggest you get together with Craig Vetter and do some chatting. He is a very nice person and will talk. His wife Carol is also very nice. They are in the Carmel CA area so it is a bit of a ride for you but you would be amazed to walk thru his design shop. While maybe no money for your research, Craig may sponsor you and allow you to have his Logo on your trike.

Craig has slowed down some since his Aug 2015 crash but he is still sharp as a straight razor. He's most likely forgotten more than I have ever learned.

A link to his gas mileage challange: Craig Vetter, designer and inventor of the Windjammer fairing,Triumph Hurricane Motorcycle Streamliners and fuel economy motorcycles

The last CaringBridge entry was
Wow... if nothing more, he would be a heck of a source for information!!! Thanks...
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dave_J

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,464 Posts
I got to be honest I love the look but as to the efficiency.....I know nothing.

The VW Bus was probably the least aerodynamic thing ever on four wheels but the spare tire mounted on the front gave you an Air Bag before Air Bags were a thing and it got it out of the cabin.

Have you made public your route ? I’d like to see it and maybe stand ready with a spare part or a tank of fuel.

Godspeed.

P.S.

This quest of yours ....are you trying to break a record or set a record ?

If you’re not already vested in this may I suggest a Toyota Prius converted to a pick-up truck and beat Elon Musk to market.
With the Prius you would be getting 50mpg and by having the back half open like a pick-up you could have one heck of a fuel cell. You might only have to fill just once. 50mpg x 80 gal = 4000 miles.

91787


91788



And by having a two seater you could have a co-pilot/co-driver.
36 hours of straight driving by one man is dangerous to not only him but every person sharing the road with him. I know how I feel after six hours now .🤣
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
Discussion Starter #66
I got to be honest I love the look but as to the efficiency.....I know nothing.

The VW Bus was probably the least aerodynamic thing ever on four wheels but the spare tire mounted on the front gave you an Air Bag before Air Bags were a thing and it got it out of the cabin.

Have you made public your route ? I’d like to see it and maybe stand ready with a spare part or a tank of fuel.

Godspeed.

P.S.

This quest of yours ....are you trying to break a record or set a record ?

If you’re not already vested in this may I suggest a Toyota Prius converted to a pick-up truck and beat Elon Musk to market.
With the Prius you would be getting 50mpg and by having the back half open like a pick-up you could have one heck of a fuel cell. You might only have to fill just once. 50mpg x 80 gal = 4000 miles.

View attachment 91787

View attachment 91788


And by having a two seater you could have a co-pilot/co-driver.
36 hours of straight driving by one man is dangerous to not only him but every person sharing the road with him. I know how I feel after six hours now .🤣
The route will be I-10 from Santa Monica, CA to Jacksonville, FL... basically beach to beach. That is quite a nice job of converting the Prius.... very professional. As for using a two seater, that is a non-starter. My intention is to do it solo and set a record as no one has done it yet and there really aren't too many records left that have not been done. There was a trio of three guys who went "non-stop" back in the 50's or 60's even using a helicopter for moving refueling!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dave_J

·
Administrator
Joined
·
18,726 Posts
On tires and skirting I'd go with the tallest tire but narrow as needed to support the weight.
On the front I'd run a 145/65 15.
On the rear a 165/65 14 or maybe the 185/60 14 for the RPM reduction.
Tirerack has this 145/65 TR 14 that will support up to 783 pounds per tire at a top speed of 118 MPH for 20 minutes.

On a tire skirt design, I was on a question and answer of a LSR forum many years ago, the recommendation was to run a skirt like the one below or just run open wheel.
The A Arm's were closed off and tapered to the rear with a slight up slope to the rear edge too for a little down force.
In my state I must cover that tire unless its a 1940's rod that will not be driven in the rain or I will get ticketed.

Aero tire skirt.jpg

Cessna 172 wheel skirts are a good design but too small for a road tire.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
Discussion Starter #68
the wheel skirt ,modified, is very doable. thank you. I agree with your choice of front tire. I was just about to start looking around to see what was available.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dave_J

·
Administrator
Joined
·
18,726 Posts

·
Administrator
Joined
·
18,726 Posts
For venting the cabin I suggest the Vetter style pop vents. AircraftSpruce.com has a few different ones. They can be cut into the windshield or even into the body and painted body colors.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
18,726 Posts
Question about your lead and chase vehicles. You said they will be RV's. Do they have the gas tank range to go non-stop with you or are you going to sloooooow down for them to refuel and catch up?

I figure they will need a gas tank around 450 gallons each to do this non-stop. That's a big bomb.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
Discussion Starter #72
No, they will have to stop for fuel so I'm thinking of having one start with me and then stop and play catch up while a second would take over at that time. I still haven't really looked at the details of that part of the trip yet..... I looked at the vents... good idea and less weight than making a hinge set up!
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
18,726 Posts
1000 places to remove 1 ounce = 62.50 pounds. In my case I need to find those 1250 places inside my body. 😯 ;)
  • I have all the stuff to machine almost everything down.
  • My 'Mill Drill' is a Bench Drill Press on steroids.
  • I have a nice bench metal lathe.
  • I am a certified Welder in all types and positions.
  • I am a ASE certified Automotive Tech in almost all parts of cars and light trucks, specialized in electrical and suspensions.
  • I am a retired IBEW electrician.
  • I drink lots of Coffee (and beer).
  • I have a BS in procrastination.
  • Problem is I am 1120 miles north of San Monica CA. ;)
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
18,726 Posts
No, they will have to stop for fuel so I'm thinking of having one start with me and then stop and play catch up while a second would take over at that time. I still haven't really looked at the details of that part of the trip yet..... I looked at the vents... good idea and less weight than making a hinge set up!
Believe it or not, at 1-8 AM you will be wanting HEAT, not cooling.

Run 1 inch copper water pipe up front and back, have a Honda or such radiator/fan with a pull cable to open a vent to the insides and shut it off and have the air divert around the outside body when warm. With warm air you can wear the light weight suit (or skivvies) .

Maybe have a 15 gallon water bottle that will spray mist on your body (in skivvies) and have wind blow over it when hot. No need for real AC. Share that water with a sip hose for you to drink.

HINT HINT.
Copy all these suggestions to a 'Word' file and condense or delete as needed.
Explore other forums for ideas.

It will not hurt our feeling if you say "Screw a Burgman" and go Vespa. ;)
Well, Darus may pout a bit. :p
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rusty J

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,464 Posts
I ain’t gonna Pout..... Edit ...Dave_J just brought me up to speed on Electric Motor Needs.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
18,726 Posts
Just a quick "Off the head" (2:10 AM and my Portuguese Port wine is saying sleep. Out of beer. :( )

You need 20 Kw/h @ 96 Volts DC to run 80 MPH per hour, hour after hour.... So a 5Kw generator will not keep up. :) AC to Dc is easy. 220 VAC to 96VDC is also easy. But 5Kw 220 VAC is about (Run thru an inverter) 12.5Kw 96 VDC running at 100 % RPM
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,464 Posts
Just a quick "Off the head", You need 20 Kw/h @ 96 Volts DC to run 80 MPH per hour, hour after hour.... So a 5Kw genarator will not keep up. :) AC to Dc is easy. 220 VAC to 96VDC is also easy
Well I ain’t gonna argue with you when it comes to Electric....will edit post.
Thanks for pouring Buttwiper on my Pipe Dream 🤣
 
  • Like
Reactions: bristowest

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,463 Posts
On a serious note, I was given a suggestion regarding the out-rigger type front I have. the comment was about the air drag they will cause. what do you think of me enclosing them so at least the wheels are swoopy and make the area a little cleaner? Something like the Aptera's?
Dave already gave you good info on this, I was going to say pretty much the same, plus:

Enclosed body will probably be heavier.
You will probably find several smaller bodywork items easier to work up and alter than one large body.
enclosed body would require open wheel wells (bad) unless made super-wide.

However, mounting wheel fairings requires some thought to make it rigid but lightweight as it will probably only be attached on the inner side of the axle assembly. They must have clearance inside for the wheel or clearance at the rear of the fairing if it turns with the wheel.
They get lots of vibration so try to ensign to prevent stress fractures at the mountings.

Like Dave said, glassing is strong and easy, you can quickly build plasticine walls to keep your alterations looking neat and tidy afterward.

A small point from experience - the vehicle is likely to go through many changes and adjustment. It’s easier to change fairings than enclosed bodywork.
I made a change that allowed me to drop the ride height way down on its adjustable suspension. Bodywork would have contacted the tyre.
On another vehicle the nose cone fore/aft changes meant the wheel was no longer centred in its arch and occasionally bumped the bodywork.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
Discussion Starter #79
Believe it or not, at 1-8 AM you will be wanting HEAT, not cooling.

Run 1 inch copper water pipe up front and back, have a Honda or such radiator/fan with a pull cable to open a vent to the insides and shut it off and have the air divert around the outside body when warm. With warm air you can wear the light weight suit (or skivvies) .

Maybe have a 15 gallon water bottle that will spray mist on your body (in skivvies) and have wind blow over it when hot. No need for real AC. Share that water with a sip hose for you to drink.
A Vespa? seriously? what, do I have to learn to say Ciao and wave at everybody as I putt along? Bwahahahaha I understand the possible need for heat at night.. (retired CHP Officer) night from 7p to 3A was my favorite shift (that's when the bad guys come out...) The mister system would make for less complication AND weight which is a good thing!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
Discussion Starter #80
Dave already gave you good info on this, I was going to say pretty much the same, plus:

Enclosed body will probably be heavier.
You will probably find several smaller bodywork items easier to work up and alter than one large body.
enclosed body would require open wheel wells (bad) unless made super-wide.

However, mounting wheel fairings requires some thought to make it rigid but lightweight as it will probably only be attached on the inner side of the axle assembly. They must have clearance inside for the wheel or clearance at the rear of the fairing if it turns with the wheel.
They get lots of vibration so try to ensign to prevent stress fractures at the mountings.

Like Dave said, glassing is strong and easy, you can quickly build plasticine walls to keep your alterations looking neat and tidy afterward.

A small point from experience - the vehicle is likely to go through many changes and adjustment. It’s easier to change fairings than enclosed bodywork.
I made a change that allowed me to drop the ride height way down on its adjustable suspension. Bodywork would have contacted the tyre.
On another vehicle the nose cone fore/aft changes meant the wheel was no longer centred in its arch and occasionally bumped the bodywork.
I think you are right regarding the wheel fairings. I checked Aircraft Spruce for their tire surrounds and think something similar might be a way to go,... but the weight is a factor.... which is more important? Some added weight or minutely less mpg? Me? I'll go with weight again.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dave_J
61 - 80 of 85 Posts
Top