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Welcome sir @bristowest
You have an ambitious plan indeed. Yep, there will be several here that can offer more knowledge and experience than you can imagine. If you need to know it, this is the place for all things Burgman. I am looking forward to reading more about plans for your streamliner. Keep us posted on it please.
 

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Interesting idea. I like the idea of long distance riding and think a 650 Burgman is not necessarily a bad choice. Carrying 50 gallons of gas is in my opinion too much of a weight penalty even on three wheels. I've toyed with the idea of adding an extra tank on mine for some of my long distance rides but would add just enough to get the fuel stops to about 300 miles or so. My bike usually gets in the area of 42-48 mpg or even a little less depending on the wind and other conditions when buzzing along at highway speeds for extended distances. My way of thinking adding about four gallons would give enough range to easily cover the 300 hundred mile target I would shoot for and not substantially affect my ride or handling. The no food or restroom breaks would be really hard to overcome.
 

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The goal is to do this nonstop for record. Stopping at a red light does not count as a stop unless you do servicing at that stop.

I guess his chase vehicle could have some sort of moving while fueling the trike.

I will merge his NEWBEE post soon.
 

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oops ! I got mixed up on projects.
 
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Discussion Starter #26
On the rear, it is a 14 inch rim but Motorcycle 14" is really 14.25" so a Car tire is a tight fit and needs special care to fit.

That said, a 165/65 14 is about as wide as you will need. I can not see needing a wider foot print.

This is not a recommendation to anyone to try this but you can fit a 185/60 14 if you grind down the sides of the swing arm. You don't need to grind much, just the factory foundry casting flash at the molds two seams. This tire is 1.18 inches TALLER. But it will drop the RPM about 260 per minuet. I ran that size tire until my 2015 crash that almost killed me. But THAT tire was not the crash cause, I got hit at 70 MPH by a flying tire off another car.

The swing arm pocket is the limiting factor on how big you can go.
I was thinking of having a wider swing arm made to accommodate the car tire. I like the idea of the taller tire.... remember, in racing you don't shave seconds off a lap.... you shave tenths of a second at a time.....:)
 

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Discussion Starter #27
Welcome sir @bristowest
You have an ambitious plan indeed. Yep, there will be several here that can offer more knowledge and experience than you can imagine. If you need to know it, this is the place for all things Burgman. I am looking forward to reading more about plans for your streamliner. Keep us posted on it please.
Will do. As for food and bathroom breaks.... good old fashioned energy bars and snacks for food. I will also have a portable refrigerator within reach in the cockpit for stuff. Having just gotten out of a 30 day stay in the hospital for a shattered hip, right arm etc... I realized that as much as I hate them, a catheter (with a shut off valve so I can exit the trike in Jacksonville) with a 12" square receptical for the urine is a hard fact of the ride. but hey.... I never said I was normal....
 
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Discussion Starter #28
At about six pounds per gallon, that's 300 pounds of fuel.
Not counting the tanks themselves.
The fuel needed will be determined during a series of test runs I plan on I-10 from Palm Springs to the Arizona border. This will give me an idea of the MPG and how many are needed. according to google (taken with a grain of salt), it is just shy of 2,500 miles. The fuel cell will probably made by ATL using their lightweight nylon reinforced fabric inside a light weight aluminum shell.
 

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Discussion Starter #29
Here is an idea of the rear of the craft with the idea of limiting drag for the best CD I can get. As for the diffusers... I realize it is sparkle farkle and I don't need them but I just want to give it some eye candy appeal while in public....

021 Alfa 180  rear view  09-11-2020.jpg The black lines on the spine indicate the height change every ten inches.
 
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The nice thing about Reverse Trikes is if you want an engine change just cut the mounting tabs off and weld in the new ones.
So if the Burgman 650 does not work just cobble up a mount for the new engine and swing arm.
Where the Burgman 650 is nice is the swing arm is part of the engine modual and requires no frame mount
 
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Welcome.

Not sure if you’ve got to the internal details yet, but:

One small but useful trick for space limited lightweights is to make the pedals adjustable instead of the seat :)

Appliying your upholstery to the bulkhead/floor reduces required height and shaves off the weight of adding a rigid seat frame which is just repeating metalwork you already have in the structure.
The adjuster mechanism can also be less robust and the movement is encased in the usually empty space in the smaller front sectional - so you get to reduce length and in the largest section and length over all. If desired, you get to use a smaller entry/exit opening too.

Keep parasite drag items and centre of pressure to the rear as much as possible, it will help with stability and crosswind handling.

It looks like you know what you are doing but we don’t know your experience, sorry if this is obvious, but be careful not to make a wing. That includes lift in all directions, not just up.

Good luck and keep us posted.
 

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Discussion Starter #32
The nice thing about Reverse Trikes is if you want an engine change just cut the mounting tabs off and weld in the new ones.
So if the Burgman 650 does not work just cobble up a mount for the new engine and swing arm.
Where the Burgman 650 is nice is the swing arm is part of the engine modual and requires no frame mount
Welcome.

Not sure if you’ve got to the internal details yet, but:

One small but useful trick for space limited lightweights is to make the pedals adjustable instead of the seat :)

Appliying your upholstery to the bulkhead/floor reduces required height and shaves of the weight of adding a rigid seat frame which is just repeating metalwork you already in the structure.
The adjuster mechanism can also be less robust and the movement is to encased in the usually empty space in the smaller front sectional - so you get to reduce vehicle length and in the largest section and length over all. If desired, you get to use a smaller entry/exit opening too.

Keep parasite drag items and centre of pressure to the rear as much as possible, it will help with stability and crosswind handling.

It looks like you know what you are doing but we don’t know your experience, sorry if this is obvious, but be careful not to make a wing. That includes lift in all directions, not just up.

Good luck and keep us posted.
Thank you for the excellent suggestions... well thought. I was looking at a formula ford type set up for the pedals. my intent is to have them fixed in place as I probably will be the only one in the trike. But I like your idea of adjustable assuming the weight isn't that much of a factor.
The nice thing about Reverse Trikes is if you want an engine change just cut the mounting tabs off and weld in the new ones.
So if the Burgman 650 does not work just cobble up a mount for the new engine and swing arm.
Where the Burgman 650 is nice is the swing arm is part of the engine modual and requires no frame mount
I am open to any and all ideas that will help me complete this journey. Keep them coming, please.
Welcome.

Not sure if you’ve got to the internal details yet, but:

One small but useful trick for space limited lightweights is to make the pedals adjustable instead of the seat :)

Appliying your upholstery to the bulkhead/floor reduces required height and shaves off the weight of adding a rigid seat frame which is just repeating metalwork you already have in the structure.
The adjuster mechanism can also be less robust and the movement is encased in the usually empty space in the smaller front sectional - so you get to reduce length and in the largest section and length over all. If desired, you get to use a smaller entry/exit opening too.

Keep parasite drag items and centre of pressure to the rear as much as possible, it will help with stability and crosswind handling.

It looks like you know what you are doing but we don’t know your experience, sorry if this is obvious, but be careful not to make a wing. That includes lift in all directions, not just up.

Good luck and keep us posted.
I am planning the seat in the cockpit to be memory foam over the fuel tank and floor pan to keep it light. As for the dreaded parasites I haven't checked the vehicle code yet for side view mirrors yet but the ones I'm going to use are less than an inch tall (I;m going to use reverse and side cameras hooked up to small monitors on the dash which will contain an Apple based computer screen for all necessary gauges etc... Not having access to a wind tunnel, what would you think of a rear vertical fin similar to a Le Mans car for advertising space? Any aerodynamic type savy people out there riding Burgman"s? wec-toyota-ts050-hybrid-unveil-2016-the-2016-toyota-ts050-hybrid-with-alexander-wurz-antho.jpg
 

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On the gauge package, the Burgman's ECM requires the factory dash to be in place. It is not a bad dash for most. The fuel gauge would be worthless but the temp, speed, clock, RPM, gear and odo will be OK for your build.

A fact about the Speedo and Odometer on these bikes. With the 160/60 14 factroy tire the speedo is about 9-10% under so if you are doing 65 MPH you really are doing 59 MPH. The 165/65 14 Car tire gets you closer to like 6% under. The 150/70 14 motorcycle tire is about 5%. The 185/60 is about dead right but now the ODO is over reporting about 2%.

I would use the factory Burgman's 4 gallon fuel tank as the fuel injector pump buffer. Just gravity feed from the 60 gallon cell to it.
 

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Discussion Starter #34
On the gauge package, the Burgman's ECM requires the factory dash to be in place. It is not a bad dash for most. The fuel gauge would be worthless but the temp, speed, clock, RPM, gear and odo will be OK for your build.

A fact about the Speedo and Odometer on these bikes. With the 160/60 14 factroy tire the speedo is about 9-10% under so if you are doing 65 MPH you really are doing 59 MPH. The 165/65 14 Car tire gets you closer to like 6% under. The 150/70 14 motorcycle tire is about 5%. The 185/60 is about dead right but now the ODO is over reporting about 2%.

I would use the factory Burgman's 4 gallon fuel tank as the fuel injector pump buffer. Just gravity feed from the 60 gallon cell to it.
I wondered about Burgman's requiring their own dash to be used. But like you said, it cover pretty much a lot of what I need. I think I;m still going to incorporate the Apple based dash into the works and have it calibrated to to the tire diameter for an accurate speed reading and odo reading. (I'm not a fan of trying to remember tach speeds.) the only other external gauge I'm going to use is a Hobb's meter for actual running time. I got so used to having one in Air Ops that I don't think I could "fly" (low avoiding radar) without one. I hadn't even thought of the actual fuel tank all ready in place. excellent, that's my reserve tank.
 

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I do know a Burgman 400 will push a trike very well but not sure it would push a 1100 - 1500 pound trike at 80 MPH in Texas I-10. But you will have burnt 14 gallons by the time you get to El Paso so 87 less pounds. Your 'Miles per Gallon' will get better and better the farther you go @ 6.2 pounds per gallon.

Its CVT is different than the 650s by a lot. It uses a Kevlar reenforced rubber belt and a sliding weight Vairator. You can get a better Dr Pulley or Masoli Clutch and they also have different rollers or sliders for the Vairator. It has like 37 Horsepower compared to the 650's 54 HP. Over all it is at least 100 pounds lighter.

Then there is the Honda 600cc Silverwing CVT scooter. You could ask Joe Sarasota over on the Facebook page if it would work as that is what he is running.
 

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Discussion Starter #36
I do know a Burgman 400 will push a trike very well but not sure it would push a 1100 - 1500 pound trike at 80 MPH in Texas I-10. But you will have burnt 14 gallons by the time you get to El Paso so 87 less pounds. Your 'Miles per Gallon' will get better and better the farther you go @ 6.2 pounds per gallon.

Its CVT is different than the 650s by a lot. It uses a Kevlar reenforced rubber belt and a sliding weight Vairator. You can get a better Dr Pulley or Masoli Clutch and they also have different rollers or sliders for the Vairator. It has like 37 Horsepower compared to the 650's 54 HP. Over all it is at least 100 pounds lighter.

Then there is the Honda 600cc Silverwing CVT scooter. You could ask Joe Sarasota over on the Facebook page if it would work as that is what he is running.
I;ll look into the Honda 600cc Silverwing..... but so far the 650 is the leader and this group is really all ready being an amazing help! Here is what I've been working on today... the front and rear of the trike lined in 10" increments.
BDC 021 Windancer Alfa 180 side front and rear   09-12-2020.jpg
 

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Not having access to a wind tunnel, what would you think of a rear vertical fin similar to a Le Mans car for advertising space? Any aerodynamic type savy people out there riding Burgman"s? View attachment 91731
I‘ve done wind tunnel work on road vehicles, but not for many years.

I would avoid aero additions unless you need them.
Race cars are not low drag vehicles, aero devices, like any wing cause “induced drag”. Most of what that TSO50 fin is doing is solving problems you don’t have.


I wouldn’t exaggerate the tail too much To start with. You don’t have the ability to crab into the wind like an aircraft can when crossing the plains.

You can’t take a single aero feature in isolation - for example your two outrigger wheels will create vortices and some crosswind/speed combinations will put those onto your tail, others won’t, which can create shimmy or sudden removal/application of forces that a fully enclosed wouldn’t suffer.
(Or turn aero features on/off abruptly - had a nasty experience with that).
(Racers have (S tunnels) to take such dirty air and dump it where it causes fewer problems)

Also a tall tale has significantly more area on a long vehicle than a stubby one.


I investigated a very small aftermarket spoiler for a coupe after several fatal crashes. It was made to look sporty but without the knowledge or testing needed - it killed a number of people so it’s really hard and irresponsible to say “do this” without getting hands on with that specific vehicle.

That all sounds a bit more gloomy than intended, sorry :) Be aware, not frightened. Consider other vehicles and experiences but remember they weren’t the same as your vehicle.

I’d smooth the shape off and see if there are any problems. Largest part of the body seems well aft of the nose and that is a good thing.
 

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I’m not a big fan of memory foam, but I know many are - and it’s your vehicle not mine.

It was designed for space and in my opinion that’s where it should stay :)

Comfiest lightweight seat I ever made was an idea stolen from a 1939’s car.
Very little padding/foam. Instead, a heavy material had thin bars in side seams. rubber hoops linked this to side supports like an old fashioned sun lounger’s springs). Minimal foam, mostly there to stop the prints biting your ass.

Local cushioning was good but you also got a subtle all over suspension (to isolate from stiff vehicle suspension)

Bungies would also work and easy to obtain (mine were individual hoops with wire hooks into drilled holes)
My top and bottom edges were fixed for support, not sprung like this lounger - and I had way more springs/hoops.



 

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i might suggest a roll cage capable of supporting an 80,000 lb 75 mph impact.
 

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Discussion Starter #40
I‘ve done wind tunnel work on road vehicles, but not for many years.

I would avoid aero additions unless you need them.
Race cars are not low drag vehicles, aero devices, like any wing cause “induced drag”. Most of what that TSO50 fin is doing is solving problems you don’t have.


I wouldn’t exaggerate the tail too much To start with. You don’t have the ability to crab into the wind like an aircraft can when crossing the plains.

You can’t take a single aero feature in isolation - for example your two outrigger wheels will create vortices and some crosswind/speed combinations will put those onto your tail, others won’t, which can create shimmy or sudden removal/application of forces that a fully enclosed wouldn’t suffer.
(Or turn aero features on/off abruptly - had a nasty experience with that).
(Racers have (S tunnels) to take such dirty air and dump it where it causes fewer problems)

Also a tall tale has significantly more area on a long vehicle than a stubby one.


I investigated a very small aftermarket spoiler for a coupe after several fatal crashes. It was made to look sporty but without the knowledge or testing needed - it killed a number of people so it’s really hard and irresponsible to say “do this” without getting hands on with that specific vehicle.

That all sounds a bit more gloomy than intended, sorry :) Be aware, not frightened. Consider other vehicles and experiences but remember they weren’t the same as your vehicle.

I’d smooth the shape off and see if there are any problems. Largest part of the body seems well aft of the nose and that is a good thing.
Thank you .... that is exactly what I needed to know.... keep it simple, smooth and smart! How would you smooth the shape off?
i might suggest a roll cage capable of supporting an 80,000 lb 75 mph impact.
Where would I find detailed instruction / design for such a roll cage?
I’m not a big fan of memory foam, but I know many are - and it’s your vehicle not mine.

It was designed for space and in my opinion that’s where it should stay :)

Comfiest lightweight seat I ever made was an idea stolen from a 1939’s car.
Very little padding/foam. Instead, a heavy material had thin bars in side seams. rubber hoops linked this to side supports like an old fashioned sun lounger’s springs). Minimal foam, mostly there to stop the prints biting your ass.

Local cushioning was good but you also got a subtle all over suspension (to isolate from stiff vehicle suspension)

Bungies would also work and easy to obtain (mine were individual hoops with wire hooks into drilled holes)
My top and bottom edges were fixed for support, not sprung like this lounger - and I had way more springs/hoops.



I‘ve done wind tunnel work on road vehicles, but not for many years.

I would avoid aero additions unless you need them.
Race cars are not low drag vehicles, aero devices, like any wing cause “induced drag”. Most of what that TSO50 fin is doing is solving problems you don’t have.


I wouldn’t exaggerate the tail too much To start with. You don’t have the ability to crab into the wind like an aircraft can when crossing the plains.

You can’t take a single aero feature in isolation - for example your two outrigger wheels will create vortices and some crosswind/speed combinations will put those onto your tail, others won’t, which can create shimmy or sudden removal/application of forces that a fully enclosed wouldn’t suffer.
(Or turn aero features on/off abruptly - had a nasty experience with that).
(Racers have (S tunnels) to take such dirty air and dump it where it causes fewer problems)

Also a tall tale has significantly more area on a long vehicle than a stubby one.


I investigated a very small aftermarket spoiler for a coupe after several fatal crashes. It was made to look sporty but without the knowledge or testing needed - it killed a number of people so it’s really hard and irresponsible to say “do this” without getting hands on with that specific vehicle.

That all sounds a bit more gloomy than intended, sorry :) Be aware, not frightened. Consider other vehicles and experiences but remember they weren’t the same as your vehicle.

I’d smooth the shape off and see if there are any problems. Largest part of the body seems well aft of the nose and that is a good thing.
What would you think if I tried to shroud the outriggers (like the Aptera design)?
 
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