[Bluelobo]

The following is likely redundant but it is provided for information and reference.

I recently purchased a 2016 400 and it already needed at tire at 5200 miles. Not wanting to replace the tire yearly I decided to join the darksiders and purchased a FEDERAL FORMOZA GIO ALL-SEASON RADIAL TIRE - 155/70R13 75T from Amazon.

Following the videos by Mitch I removed the rear tire. I did not remove the lower side panel, but reached underneath to loosen the exhaust.

I found a shop to swap the tires. (I've done it before on other bikes but given the small diameter I decided to just pay. My suggestion on finding a shop is to look for a shop that does a lot of dirt bikes and ATV's in a run down building. Pay cash and see what they'll do.

He got the tire on no problem but the bead would not set. It was cold and he was out of propane for his heater. He ran it to 85psi but it would not set.

I brought it home mounted but the bead remained unset. I put it on the bike and drove it hard around some corners...NO I DID NOT. NOT AN IDIOT (today at least).

It was at about 60 psi and after a few hours by the heater it still wouldn't seat.

I lowered the pressure, lubed it up, and tried again. No luck. Multiple tries. Each time one section of the tire would not be seated and was held up on the internal ridge. I tried vibration with a reciprocating saw, tapping with mallet, rotating, changing which area didn't seat and nothing would do it.

I decided that I should try higher pressure. I put the tire in an enclosure and moved about 60 feet away behind another barrier and a vehicle. If you decide to raise the pressure above a reasonable level (I feel OK up to 70, but use your judgement) use multiple barriers. The second barriers are to stop the shrapnel if the first one is damaged.

I rigged my compressor and regulator so that the hose was a long distance with a locking chuck on the tire. I tried 90psi and no luck. I then turned the regulator up to 120 and bled some air so the compressor cycled on. Somewhere between 100 and 115 both beads popped into place. Sweet sound.

When looking at the tire at lower pressure I was becoming convinced it would never work. But it did.

I remounted it w/o issue and took it for a test ride (straight lines, low speed) with no issues. It feels slightly different than with the stock tire but not worse, just slightly different. I don't think I could tell if I didn't know.

Notes/tips.

• Wash wheel before you start. I would have saved a lot of hassle. I knew i should but...
• Did not balance tire. Shop couldn't with the bead set and I didn't want to take it back in tomorrow. Does not seem to be an issue.
• There does not seem to be a substitute for pressure for some of these tires. I tried heat, more lube (better and more lube may have helped), vibration, rotating, etc). Pressure can damage tire, rim and you. If you don't know how to be safe don't do it. Error on the side of caution.
• I was able to install it with not modification to anything while fully inflated. Had to push past the internal plastic fender at top but only about 1/4" of interference that was easily overcome.
• The valve stems are terrible to use. Almost impossible to get the majority of chucks or pressure gauges on. Designer did not consider usability.
• Was able to hold the brake with one hand while loosening/tightening axle nut (used torque wrench to tighten.)
• This is not a beginner project. If you haven't set tire beads before, if you're not familiar with all the steps I would not recommend making darksiding a learning project. Get help or find a shop to do it.

Unfortunately I was so involved in the project I didn't get any pictures of the "unset" bead.

Tire after bead set

Ready for re-install

Ready to roll

 

[Abner Bjorn]

Welcome to the club. I've had that same size tire on my 2008 for the last 6,000 miles. I paid $35 for mine. The only real difference I notice is when on uneven pavement. The car tire wants to follow the rut. I'm getting around 73mpg, and at 6,000 miles the tire still looks new.

 

[Bluelobo]

I should thank @Paul38 for his accounts. Provided encouragement that it is indeed possible.

 

[mike1nw]

I keep thinking about this mod, every stinking time I change the rear one, average @ 8,000 miles, might try it on a summer day when the garage attic is 120°, that might do the trick seating it 😎 as far as balance, HF balancer should do it.

 

[mike1nw]

Also: I've used WD40 with success.
150-70-13 circumference = 66.8 in.
155-70-13 circumference = 67.8 in.

Or +1.2%, so Every little bit helps counteract the stupid inaccurate speedometer 🙂

 

[mikeyMarine]

I keep thinking about this mod, every stinking time I change the rear one, average @ 8,000 miles, might try it on a summer day when the garage attic is 120°, that might do the trick seating it 😎 as far as balance, HF balancer should do it.

I am gonna try darksiding my rebel if I ever wear out the tire, as far as balancing goes , if you have an axle and 2 chairs, you got a balancer

 

[mike1nw]

Just curious, why are c a r tires more difficult to mount on Burgie's wheel.

 

[Bluelobo]

Just curious, why are c a r tires more difficult to mount on Burgie's wheel.

My understanding is that they are a slightly smaller diameter and have a slightly different bead geometry.

MC also have a larger ridge/bump as well

 

[Dave_J]

Years ago I cut a Bridgestone BattleAx Motorcycle tire and a Bridgestone Potenza RE92 Car tire so I had about 1.5 inched of the bead. I then pushed the bead down into the Motorcycle rim. What I found is in the picture below. On the inside the MC rim has a bump and the car tire did interfere but was compliant and conformed. It does not hold the bead off the rim. On the outside of the rim the car tire had a little more gap as the rims bead area is not as tall by 1mm.

Yes a motorcycle 14 inch rim is about 14.175 inches so a cars 14 tire is a bit tighter. Some car tires on on easy and some may never fit. Back in the 1900's thru about 1980 motorcycle rims were the same as a car so the manufactures made the motorcycle rim taller to keep bikers from running longer lasting car tires. Almost every Harley Davidson we had from the 60's ran a truck's 15 inch.

 

[mike1nw]

Interesting 🙂
What psi would you run the c a r tire on Burgie? I'd guess most cars run about 30-33 psi.
Also, AN400 rear tire psi varies, depends on 1 or 2 aboard.

 

[Dave_J]

Mike, there are posts in the 400 section on car tires. But on the 650 we have found that 38 to 40 PSI works best. I think the 155/65 14 I am running has a Max of 51 PSI

 

[Abner Bjorn]

Interesting 🙂
What psi would you run the c a r tire on Burgie? I'd guess most cars run about 30-33 psi.
Also, AN400 rear tire psi varies, depends on 1 or 2 aboard.

I keep my rear at 41. I consistently get 71+mpg. Some of my riding is two-up.

 

[nulldevice]

Mike, there are posts in the 400 section on car tires. But on the 650 we have found that 38 to 40 PSI works best. I think the 155/65 14 I am running has a Max of 51 PSI

Why such outlandishly high pressure? I would think that would cause a really harsh ride, and you certainly don't need pressure that high for the load it carries.

 

[Dave_J]

I do not run 51 PSI. That is the MAX rating for the tire.

I run between 38 and 41 PSI depending on the load. It rides so much softer than the Bridgestone 160/60 HR 14 motorcycle tire even at 41 PSI.

 

[mikeyMarine]

Why such outlandishly high pressure? I would think that would cause a really harsh ride, and you certainly don't need pressure that high for the load it carries.

when I had my darkside I ran it a 45 cold with a tpms watched the temp go up to 47, it was fine, it got better mileage, was truer to speedo and ride was not rough at all , about like my oem's I figured if it took 110 lbs to seat. 45 on the road would be safe, I'd go back in a heartbeat if I could get one to seat. I've got a shinko on now and a spare in the closet makin my slothes smell soo nice, maybe a darkside after I wear out those two

 

[JOHNY 650]

The following is likely redundant but it is provided for information and reference.

I recently purchased a 2016 400 and it already needed at tire at 5200 miles. Not wanting to replace the tire yearly I decided to join the darksiders and purchased a FEDERAL FORMOZA GIO ALL-SEASON RADIAL TIRE - 155/70R13 75T from Amazon.

Following the videos by Mitch I removed the rear tire. I did not remove the lower side panel, but reached underneath to loosen the exhaust.

I found a shop to swap the tires. (I've done it before on other bikes but given the small diameter I decided to just pay. My suggestion on finding a shop is to look for a shop that does a lot of dirt bikes and ATV's in a run down building. Pay cash and see what they'll do.

He got the tire on no problem but the bead would not set. It was cold and he was out of propane for his heater. He ran it to 85psi but it would not set.

I brought it home mounted but the bead remained unset. I put it on the bike and drove it hard around some corners...NO I DID NOT. NOT AN IDIOT (today at least).

It was at about 60 psi and after a few hours by the heater it still wouldn't seat.

I lowered the pressure, lubed it up, and tried again. No luck. Multiple tries. Each time one section of the tire would not be seated and was held up on the internal ridge. I tried vibration with a reciprocating saw, tapping with mallet, rotating, changing which area didn't seat and nothing would do it.

I decided that I should try higher pressure. I put the tire in an enclosure and moved about 60 feet away behind another barrier and a vehicle. If you decide to raise the pressure above a reasonable level (I feel OK up to 70, but use your judgement) use multiple barriers. The second barriers are to stop the shrapnel if the first one is damaged.

I rigged my compressor and regulator so that the hose was a long distance with a locking chuck on the tire. I tried 90psi and no luck. I then turned the regulator up to 120 and bled some air so the compressor cycled on. Somewhere between 100 and 115 both beads popped into place. Sweet sound.

When looking at the tire at lower pressure I was becoming convinced it would never work. But it did.

I remounted it w/o issue and took it for a test ride (straight lines, low speed) with no issues. It feels slightly different than with the stock tire but not worse, just slightly different. I don't think I could tell if I didn't know.

Notes/tips.

• Wash wheel before you start. I would have saved a lot of hassle. I knew i should but...
• Did not balance tire. Shop couldn't with the bead set and I didn't want to take it back in tomorrow. Does not seem to be an issue.
• There does not seem to be a substitute for pressure for some of these tires. I tried heat, more lube (better and more lube may have helped), vibration, rotating, etc). Pressure can damage tire, rim and you. If you don't know how to be safe don't do it. Error on the side of caution.
• I was able to install it with not modification to anything while fully inflated. Had to push past the internal plastic fender at top but only about 1/4" of interference that was easily overcome.
• The valve stems are terrible to use. Almost impossible to get the majority of chucks or pressure gauges on. Designer did not consider usability.
• Was able to hold the brake with one hand while loosening/tightening axle nut (used torque wrench to tighten.)
• This is not a beginner project. If you haven't set tire beads before, if you're not familiar with all the steps I would not recommend making darksiding a learning project. Get help or find a shop to do it.

Unfortunately I was so involved in the project I didn't get any pictures of the "unset" bead.

Tire after bead set
View attachment 96842

View attachment 96843

View attachment 96844

Ready for re-install
View attachment 96845



View attachment 96846

Ready to roll
View attachment 96841

I run the same tire on my 650 and yes it takes over 100 psi to set the bead.

 

[BackOnABikeAfter40years!]

Hey guys....THIS is what one of you meant when you said: "running a car tire on the rear..."
Now I get it !
Will this apply to my 2006 AN400 ?
Now I've got (brand new SHINKO) stock size 130/70-13 of course.

Does a 155/70-13 "any brand" car tire fit my rear position ?

Hey speaking of this subject, but how often do rear Burgman tires wear VS front tires ?

Twice as fast ?

TY - David

 

[Dave_J]

The rim on the 2002-2006 will not take the Car tire. I think someone said it will hit the engine case or something. The 2007 and up can be fitted as its a lot different.

 

[mikeyMarine]

rear tire wear, yeh my 400 went thru 2 rears to one front pretty consistently

 

[BackOnABikeAfter40years!]

Bummer on that score....man I was hoping.

And the normal for later years, Bridgestone 150/70 won't fit either ?

That's funny I'm not surprised it's 2 rear / 1 front on wear out.

Same exact, as on Road bikes, as there's roughly 2x the weight + power vs front.

Also on Road bikes get rear flats 3x / 1 front flat - for same reason I believe.

True on these Scoots ?

David