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Discussion Starter #1
I just had an Achilles Platinum 7 CT mounted on the rear of my 400 and a Hoop on the front and must say, my mechanic is incredible. If you are ever in Grand Junction and need some work, tell Ace at Grand Valley Power that Scott sent you. In the past, Ace quoted me $20 for a tire change, wheel off the bike. This time, I approached him about dark siding my 400. He said he had tried to dark side a scooter in the past without luck but, would be willing to try again. He even said he would charge the same he usually does, knowing there would probably be extra work involved. I told him I would pass on what has been reported here for pointers. One day later and, I had both tires back. As others, he put it in the sun, lubed the tire/rim (he was able to get it to seat with silicone spray), and had to take it to around 100 psi. He not only got them back to me quickly but, only ended up charging me $22 and change, including tax for both tires! I don't know if he'll give everyone such a deal but, you know he won't be outrageous.

So far, I have a mixed review after only a few miles. Generally, the handling and feel are good although, somewhat different. The only concern I have is a sort of low frequency wobble at interstate speeds. However, I also have a steering bearing going bad (it has formed a detent at center) and had tightened it some, as the front end was getting loose. I think this accentuated the influence of the detent and may be the cause of the wobble. I also want to experiment around with air pressures.

In the thread, "My First Rear Tire Change (winter day project)" the OP mentioned having to cut away some plastic on the underneath side of the seat box for the tire to clear. I found I was able to angle in the tire/wheel and, with a little shoving, force it past with no cutting. I also put new brake pads while things were apart.

Later in the day or perhaps, tomorrow I'm going to mount up my new GoPro 3+ Silver edition and try 'er out! (All getting ready for a Colorado tour with other maxi scoots, next month.)
 

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Coincidence --- I just got on here tonight after sometime not on the site, partly to see if you ever got the thing mounted and saw your post you just posted. EUREKA

That is the easy way out -- let someone else do it. HA!

THAT IS WHAT I SHOULD DO NEXT TIME. Worked and worried and then had so much help, it was like having someone do it anyway and spent more. :) I donated to the guy's web site (EastTNBikers.com) that did seat it and helped me get it on the rim. I aslo tipped the guys at a Used Tire store that tried to seat it (the store does not usually charge for such and I juust tip them $5 as they do not make much in wages I am sure). They did not get it seated, probably because of lack of lubrication and I was trying to keep pressure down figuring it would seat in time.

Glad you found someone willing and what a great price :)

Best I would be able to do around here is $15 per wheel - wheel off (guy has excellent equipment to work with, no mar and even a spin balance). Even with that - he had trouble mounting a car tire on my friends Valkyrie, but they got it done. So, not sure he could do it or not do it on the scooter?

I think the final seating secret for me was the Teflon Spray Lube (as I said chain lube by Dupont bought at Walmart for Chains -- there is just plain Dupont Teflon Lube at Lowe's Stores). Lowe's is big hardware and everything chain, like Home Depot if youa re familiar with thsoe type stores.

And of course had to go to 100 psi which I wanted to avoid.

Wobble, I certainly would not think the Car Tire causes that (based on my use - now at about 7000 miles). I can turn loose of handle bars at any speed and runs straight and true. (That is with the original Equipment on front and nearly 13000 miles total on the OEM Front tire which is showing signs of cuping and wear on edges - lot of curvy rides around here).

As far as handling diference -- I say Negligible.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Wobble, I certainly would not think the Car Tire causes that (based on my use - now at about 7000 miles). I can turn loose of handle bars at any speed and runs straight and true. (That is with the original Equipment on front and nearly 13000 miles total on the OEM Front tire which is showing signs of cuping and wear on edges - lot of curvy rides around here).

As far as handling diference -- I say Negligible.
Yeah...I'm hoping/presuming at this point it will clear up when I get the new bearings in the front end. I'll know by next weekend.
 

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I also had a higher speed (75 indicated) wobble when I 1st put my C/T on my 650. Kinda like is was losing traction, the same as a new M/C tire. The problem was much less so with a passenger on back (80-85 Indicated).

I remember that when I put a new front, and rear M/C tire on at the same time, the bike felt like I was riding on a greased road for the 1st. few dozen miles.

It usually takes a 100 miles or so to "scrub-in" a new M/C tire, but seems to take almost 500 - 1,500 miles to scrub my C/T.

The rake angle also plays a part, as my '03 is less than an '05 and up. The steering head bearings are also critical, even more so with a C/T.

Don't rush it, a M/C tire is sportier ride, an C/T is more for touring. It is a different beast.
While from another post, I believe it still applies Car tire (Dark Side) EXPERIENCES ONLY

Let us know the result when you get the head bearings adjusted.
 

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Weird Wobbles --- Noticed nothing when I went to a Car Titre (on the 400 or the 650 before).

Solid as a rock at all speeds (max I have seen is almost 90 mph). I think that is maximum for the 400 (talking actual not speedometer with 10% error, now 7% error with Car Tire).

No getting use to for 100s of miles - very little if any difference in handling (Negligible).

Swapped Scooters with a buddy tofday (His Yamaha Majesty 400) and we were on some curves on Blue Ridge Parkway. He lead on my scooter and was getting it pretty good (Not crazy speed mind you). When we swapped back, I said you were on a Car Tire. He had not a clue.

Also, it was his first time ever on a Burgman 400 with any kind of tire. Has ben a Harley Rider all his life until he bought the used 2007 Yamaha Majesty three weeks ago (has only ridden ti a few hundred miels).

By the way -- the clutch engagement on the Majesty 400 is a lot more smoother than on the Burgman 400.
 

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So far, I have a mixed review after only a few miles. Generally, the handling and feel are good although, somewhat different. The only concern I have is a sort of low frequency wobble at interstate speeds. However, I also have a steering bearing going bad (it has formed a detent at center) and had tightened it some, as the front end was getting loose. I think this accentuated the influence of the detent and may be the cause of the wobble. I also want to experiment around with air pressures.
I had a similar problem when I put my first CT (Protenza) on a 650. I changed the air pressure in the CT and the wobble disappeared. I can not remember it I also changed the front tire pressure also. Try changing your air pressure and see what happens.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Now that they've scrubbed in some, I am noticing the handling getting better. Since I know I've got bearing problems, I'm going to leave it as-is until I change out the bearings and see how things are. After that, I'll play with the pressures if it seems necessary. Thanks for the comments.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Oh, what a difference new steering bearings can make! So far, I'm pleased with the handling and performance except at 70+ mph, at which the bike still has a wobble. I'll play with rear tire pressures, now.
 

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Oh, what a difference new steering bearings can make! So far, I'm pleased with the handling and performance except at 70+ mph, at which the bike still has a wobble. I'll play with rear tire pressures, now.
I have not experimented with pressure -- just pump it up to around 37 PSI. Sometiems when I recheck in a few days, have seen 35PSI.

I have a feeling front pressure is more of an issue on these 400s because people are use to running more pressure than recommended 25psi. (I use to use near 40psi on all my previous MCs cause everyone says tires last longer - not so sure that is true as seems to me you are forcing tire to run more on center which is wha wears out fastest). Also, read in here that things work better at lower pressure on front tire. I have been runing more like 27psi on the front.

Pictures:

Front tire at 13,500 Miles (Took to show Chicken Strip - unused portion of edge of tire tread).

Rear tire at 7200 miles of use -- 0.175in tread left from 0.250in when new.

That figures out to be 24000 miles if you run it slick and wear rate stays the same. :violent1:
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Paul - Pictures? Anyway, right now I'm at 35 psi. It has settled quite a bit and doesn't seem to want to oscillate at the smallest influence. However, I find if I jiggle the handlebar, it induces an oscillation that subsides after about three cycles of decreasing magnitude. This is only above about 65 to 70 mph. What is your experience at that speed and the pressure you are running?
 

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Guys, it's often quite normal to get a wobble when increasing the width of the rear tyre (tire) on a bike or scooter. I had the same on my GSX1400 when I temporarily went to a 210/55 profile motorcycle tyre over the standard 195. Although the extra width was minimal, the profile was different and this too contributed to the wobble. A car tyre is normally even worse for this due to the more square cross profile. If you imagine for a moment, the width of the tyre is more and far more square, so as you ride over slightly uneven surfaces (that may look completely smooth to the rider) and small gravel for example, the tyre doesn't always maintain maximum even contact with the road. The tyre will often experience uneven upward pressure in the contact patch area as one side of the tyre goes over gravel or an uneven patch in the road. This induces wobble effect at differing speeds. It usually doesn't go away but you do get used to it. It's one reason we are not allowed to change our tyres to CT's or even larger profile bike tyres here in most of 'Urop'. Our own road transport research laboratory found CT's or in some cases larger profile than standard bike tyres had a derogatory effect on both roadholding and handling. This may not be for every combination of bike or tyre used but it was enough for the Government to ban them as in general, the public tends not to know what they are doing (not a dig at anyone here) and often end up doing stuff that can be very dangerous to their bikes. Not saying you've done that, but talking in general terms. The other thing I would mention is that putting 100psi into a tyre to seat it is just not a good idea. I would watch that tyre carefully as 100psi is likely to do internal damage to the bands and you may develop lumps and bumps in the tyre over time. The normal rule for seating is to not go over 50psi and on the standard Burgman tyres 35psi is more than enough. Car tyres you can go higher but usually not 100psi on a tyre of your size. Not trying to rain on your parade but do keep an eye on it.
 

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Our own road transport research laboratory [citation needed] found CT's or in some cases larger profile than standard bike tyres had a derogatory effect on both roadholding and handling..
Doesn't the UK ban on car tires for motorcycles go much further back?

The "improper tyre" example in the MOT guide is probably just a knee-jerk reaction based on people fitting 15" VW Beetle diagonal tyres on their chopped BSA or Triumph's rear rims, back in the day, before proper MC-tyres in that size were widely available.
 

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I filled my Darkside with "ride on" balancer and sealer.

I'm okay with the car tire but I will say: it does feel a bit different. If I lived in a big suburban area like New York, London, etc I probably wouldn't do it, however out here on the Great Plains 98% of my riding is in straight-lines, and at 100 miles per day on the scoot I can wallow through a tire in about three months whereas the car tyre last about three year.

Seating it was a B......
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I filled my Darkside with "ride on" balancer and sealer!
Chappy, how does it feel at 70-80 mph? I read somewhere the flat profile of the CT didn't fair as well as the round profile of the MT with balancers. What I read specifically had to do with the beads so, I don't know if it applies here as well.
 

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I filled my Darkside with "ride on" balancer and sealer.

I'm okay with the car tire but I will say: it does feel a bit different. If I lived in a big suburban area like New York, London, etc I probably wouldn't do it, however out here on the Great Plains 98% of my riding is in straight-lines, and at 100 miles per day on the scoot I can wallow through a tire in about three months whereas the car tyre last about three year.

Seating it was a B......
The darkside tire really shines in city driving where the constant accelaration and engine braking eats up the rear tire in no time (5000 km 3500 miles) The car tire shows no real wear after more than 2½ times that distance.

Going round street corners and roundabouts is no problem, but series of twisties is not as "delicious" as on a real motorcycle tire.
 

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Chappy, how does it feel at 70-80 mph? I read somewhere the flat profile of the CT didn't fair as well as the round profile of the MT with balancers. What I read specifically had to do with the beads so, I don't know if it applies here as well.
Runs just fine ode chap. I'm sure it's just another version of slime that they use in car tires. It balanced it out nice I can run 90 mph not feel wobble... I also have about 3K on that tyre now, and see no spekles of un even tire wear due to unbalanced... I did try the beads one time, but it wasn't as convenient and easy to use I much prefer the slime, which is what I always used in my Kawasaki's... Wiping it off the rim is no problem!
 

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Sometimes I can't believe all this talk about wobble, car tires are bad, only good for straigh riding, etc., etc.

Only wobble I have ever had is on my NINJA (MC TIRES) - felt it all the time (for like 35000 miles and different tires). Then last front tire I installed (same as others - a KENDA) the wobble was gone. ??? Beats me, except I heard rumors that Kenda improevd their tires.

By the way, wobble was enough that if you turned loose of the handle bars (I would say an inch or so on handle bars). NO PROBLEM.

I have not felt anything on the 400 (now about 8000 miles on car tire) and did not feel anything on the 650 (used Car tire for 30000 miles). ALL SPEEDS (up to near 100 on 650 and almost 90 on the 400 (which is about all they will do anyeway - actual speeds, not speedometer).

I know guys here running car tires on bikes (Valks, Goldwings, VTX 1300s) for years and many thousdands of miles that ride (I am sure in excess of 70 or 80 mph and corner more than most of you ever do). I have posted pictures of one Valkyrie with muffler about an inch from scrapping the road on the Dragon on a car tire.

I posted pictures of my car tire after 7000 or so miles with also picture of the Front Tire 'Chicken Strip". I don't lean at race riders angles, but I ride and more curves than a lot of folks have seen (East TN and Surrounding Area Mountsains in NC, GA, KY). CAR TIRES WORK.

Plus, all the worrry about mounting opressure? I admit that was a worry to me also and I tried everything to keep it below 80 or 90PSI (which is also high if you look at instructions from tire manufactures). However, it is a common thing and done all the time.

Do people ever get tired of worrying about Car Tires on MCs? :) No offense intended.
 

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Aopparently, I did not get pictures posted to go with the post about CAR TIRE at 7200 miles and also show "Chicken Strip" on the Front Tire. Try to post again. I have also posted all the information on my thread about the Car Tire (had in the title Test at 15 miles) Bad choice of title. as now have tested at 4000 and 72000 also.

Note -- Meausred Car Tire Tread depth at 7200 miles when I took the picture (ave is 0.175 vs 0.250 when new)
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Sorry Paul but, as I am having the actual experience of the wobble, I think I am justified to "worry" about at least particular CT on a motorcycle and, some of the stuff kinda did sound offensive. Or, at least it makes me feel defensive. In any case, we're in the same camp regarding CT's but, I would prefer to get this figured out. I'll try a couple psi higher as you are running and, may try the Ride-On product. I've read some good things about it. Fortunately, relatively little of my riding is at Interstate speeds, as most of my higher speeds are at highway speeds of 60-70 mph, just below where the problem occurs.

Thanks for your input!
 
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