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Now we were out in southern Illinois corn country today and as I wheeled up to the petrol pump I noticed a large descriptive sign on the face of the pump regarding VIN (vehicle identification numbers) specifically the third, fourth, and 8th digit. It lists the vehicles whose manufacturers permit the use of 85% ethanol--that's correct, I didn't stutter--eighty five % minimum ethanol alcohol--that's corn squeezings!!!
I wouldn't advocate it for the Burgmans, but has any of our members used it in their cages or trucks? ( Diesel owners are exempt for this even though we now make cleaner burning diesel fuel from soybeans.)
I had heard about a couple stations in St. Louis County area selling this fuel, but hadn't come across it until today in a little farming town in southern Illinois.
 

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Never seen or heard tell of the stuff before this.

My only thought on it is: how badly will the exhaust sytem fare with all of the water in the exhaust vapor? I'm thinkin' rust city!
 

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Is this fuel similar to 'Bio Willy', the fuel sold by Willy Nelson?
 

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That stuff is for sale at a few places around here.
Our current state government is going all gaga for ethanol, they are trying to legislate that gas must contain a minimum alcohol content, even though automakers may not have vehicles commonly available to run on the stuff. Hope common sense prevails there.
Absolutely don't use it (E85) in any motor not designed for it. None of the vehicles we own can take the stuff. If I understand correctly, using this fuel will cause a noticble drop in fuel economy, as alcohol has less "energy" per volume vs gasoline. And it can damage fuel delivery components that aren't made for such a high alcohol content.

Isn't that Bio Willy Fuel bio diesel? That's just diesel fuel made from non petroleum sources, some type of food crop, if I recall.
 

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What a waste of "Corn Squeezin's". :wink:
 

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If I recall correctly I've read it (used to - anyways) burn up valves but newer stuff may or may not do that?
 

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As Brewman said, Minnesota is pushing Ethanol and E85 can be found at some stations around here. My boss runs it in his Suburban, which is certified to use E85. It is my understanding that most non-metal fuel lines will degrade and breakdown from this much ethanol.

Fuel economy is lower for E85, but price is way lower than gasoline. Emissions from the vehicle have less pollution, but I understand that it takes more energy and creates as much pollution to produce as petrol.


Iowa is reportedly the biggest producer of ethanol based products. Here's there official propaganda.. eh.. facts on E85.

http://www.agriculture.state.ia.us/e85facts.html
 

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Bio-Diesel is a reduced viscosity vegetable oil - and that is nothing like ethanol... I tried the E20 BioDiesel once. Other than my truck smelling like a fast food deep fryer - I didn't notice anything different.

With any ethanol addative you have to be careful what you put it in. Not only does it have solvent properties (frees up debris in fuel system to possibly clog a fuel injector), but it can also eat up rubber hoses, connectors, and FI sensors. All US automobiles moved to ethanol safe fuel systems in the mid 90's - but I don't know about motorcycles and scooters.
 

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Suzuki says ok on 10% ethanol, but no more, if I recall.

Adam-

Isn't that E85 fuel heavily subsidized, hence the cheaper pump price?

On a side note, I've also heard that alcohol is less volatile than gasoline, so I wonder if the vehicles running E85 have cold weather starting issues?
 

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Here in sweden where the gas is pretty expensive, a lot of people are experimenting with E85. From what I've read it seems that most modern cars can use 30-50% E85 mixed with gas on a full tank without problems. Only drawback is that it's harder to start when it's cold outside.
 

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Brewman said:
...Adam- Isn't that E85 fuel heavily subsidized, hence the cheaper pump price?

On a side note, I've also heard that alcohol is less volatile than gasoline, so I wonder if the vehicles running E85 have cold weather starting issues?
Sailor's got you covered with the answer to the cold weather starts, Brewman.

As for heavily subsidized ethanol, you bet. As we still pay relatively low prices for refined petroleum products, without the subsidies ethanol for U.S. consumption would be so unprofitable that it just wouldn't be done. Ethanol refineries provide a market for our corn growing farmers, while banking on a future supplementary energy source for the time when gasoline really gets expensive in the U.S.

It may or may not be the right path to take, but nobody wins the Iowa Caucus if they come out again ethanol subsidies. (Oops! Did I say that out loud?)
 

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Holy cow there's a lot of misinformation out there on ethanol.

Ethanol is a good oxygenate (one out of a few choices - the others are petroleum based), which is required in fuel to make it burn cleaner. Ethanol is often chosen since it's a renewable resource that we can make here in the states. Yeah, it helps the farmers more than the people who want to kill us. A high ethanol content will not eat non-metal lines - it just has a tendency to break down *some* rubber parts. Up to 10% ethanol, though, will not hurt anything. Even if your car does not explicitly say anything, up to 10% is always fine, and up to 15% is almost always fine. Ethanol sometimes gets a bad rap for clogging fuel systems. This is because Ethanol has natural detergent properties that tend to keep fuel systems clean. Unfortunately, that other crap doesn't, which causes build-up in the fuel system. Much like dumping a can of "fuel injector cleaner" in teh tank, running a few tanks of Ethanol gas through a car that's not in good shape can potentially clean the system out and clog the fuel filter. So, replace the cheap filter that did it's job, and enjoy a cleaner fuel system.

As far as the 85% Ethanol, it costs less partialy due to subsidies, which are largely realized through reduced taxation, IIRC. The price of gas is largely taxes, and a little bit actual petroleum. So the gov't reduces taxes on Ethanol, which puts more money into the US economy (and a few other countries), causing the people involved in that supply chain to have more money, which is spent on other taxable products. So, the Gov't still gets their money eventually, and we have a renewable energy source that comes from our own country with reduced harmful emissions. Yes, it causes something like a 10% reduction in fuel economy. That's what, 2 or 3 MPG on a typical car? Gasp! Driving 10 MPH over the limit can do that, too. :)

Some points to consider. Gas is slowly gong away, making it more expensive. Ethanol production is relatively expensive due to having almost no infrastructure in place - just like everything else, it gets cheaper as volume increases. Ethanol is renewable and clean-burning (while there ae more emissions from the burning, there are less *harmful* emissions). And finally, here's the important part, Ethanol can easily be incorporated into our existing distribution infrastructure (same gas stations) and our existing engine designs. It just takes backing the timing out a little, replacing some seals, and it's done. Other renewable sources generally require fairly drastic changes to engine technology, wheras Ethanol basically works with what we have right now.

I've run Ethanol-enhanced fuel in every car I've owned for quite a long time, and have *never* had a fuel system problem. I get the same mileage everyone else does. But some of my money is staying in the US.

Oh, BTW, cars that can run E-85 are labeled as such, and generally detect the type of fuel in the tank, adjusting engine parameters as needed to compensate for 0% up to 85% ethanol content. The gas statin next to my house sells it, as do several places here in central IL.
 

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Thanks for the additional information, Danny. Your comments supported most of the previous posts in this thread, while filling in many of the details behind comments about the potential hazards for most vehicle using E85 and how we subsidize the production of ethanol in the U.S.

Nicely done.
 

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There's an article in the MPLS Tribune today about bio-diesel.

This is diesel fuel made from soybeans, and it's supposed to burn cleaner than dinosaur diesel. The Co-Op station in a nearby suburb (Apple Valley) sells various blends for close to the price of gasoline. They also offer 100% vegetable juice but the cost is close to $4 per gallon.

So there's yet another non fossil alternative possibility.

Except DON'T use it in your Burgman :wink:
 

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Bio-diesel can be made also from corn, sunflowers, hemp-seed, and any other vegetable oil. Some claim that it will give you better mileage - but I noticed no diffence. Even though it is a reduced viscosity vegetable oil, it does have a higher viscosity than regular diesel fuel. My truck has a fuel pre-heater on it, which reduces the viscosity further and aids in starts. But the smaller diesel powered cars do not all have that - and cold Bio-Diesel is not going to flow properly through the injectors - Diesel Mercedes and VW's might not want to run on it.

The other advantages to bio-Diesel are that it's flashpoint it 300 degrees compared to 150 degrees for normal diesel, the exhaust isn't as toxic, the fumes from storage isn't toxic, and some like it because it breaks down faster than regular diesel. The shorter "shelf life" so to speak, is a plus to the tree huggers, but the retailers see that as a problem - they don't want to have 1,000 gallons of Bio-Diesel go bad in their storage tank because they didn't sell it in 2 months...
 

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dannysauer said:
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I got a good chuckle out of these words, "...Ethanol-enhanced fuel..."
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You have a great future in creative writing. <BBG>
 

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ben1364 said:
dannysauer said:
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I got a good chuckle out of these words, "...Ethanol-enhanced fuel..."
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You have a great future in creative writing. <BBG>
Being a sysadmin that often isn't perfect, it'sregularly happens that choosing how to word something means the difference between me looking like a hero and a buffoon - and a hero gets to keep his job. ;)
 
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