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Discussion Starter #1
I ride around with an extra gallon under the seat just in case...

I was wondering how difficult, or not, it would be to put a few gallons in there and run some type of line with a manual valve into the main tank?

It would be pretty nice to get low, flip a lever and toss a few more gallons down the pipe.

I know the iron butt guys and gals do this. Any ideas on how?
 

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The use something called a fuel cell. I know one guy had one hooked up to a Honda Helix scooter for an Ironbutt adventure. They aren't pretty from the pictures I've seen... but it could be mounted on a rear rack or somewhere like that.

You can see some examples here:
http://www.sampson-sporttouring.com/fuel-cells.html
 

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Your still going to have to stop for gas no matter what you do....:(
.But if you really need extra miles (like an Iron Butt) then I guess it's worth all the extra trouble at fill up time. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Randy said:
Your still going to have to stop for gas no matter what you do....:(
.But if you really need extra miles (like an Iron Butt) then I guess it's worth all the extra trouble at fill up time. :)
Yup, but 150 miles is tight out in in the southwest... I've got legs in the desert where gas is 160-180 apart, so I have to carry an extra gallon container, stop and fill up.

Might be worth $100 or so and some engineering to have a 250 mile range.

Fillups would only involve popping the seat and filling both tanks if I wanted too.
 

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I talked to a guy once who did product liability investigations for Yamaha. Said he had a case of a Venture rider once, the old full dresser type, that complained of getting a wobble when he had only gone about 300 miles. First thing I wondered was what kind of mileage does this guy get? Turned out he had filled up the top trunk with a bladder type of tank. It aparently didn't have any baffles in it, and as he used up the gas, the liquid started sloshing around in that bladder, which was upsetting his balance, creating a wobble. He actually complained to Yamaha about it. :wink:
If I remember correctly, gasoline weighs about 8 lbs. per gallon. If you keep the weight low, and baffled so it doesn't wave around a lot, you might be able to do it.
 

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Well I have to agree with the need for a little extra fuel.
If you put a "cell" in the under seat storage the weight should be low enough not to effect the balance of the bike. From there a hose with a shut off to the tank .
with the 400 it's a no brainier as the tank is down lower. I don't know about the the 650 but you could always use an elect. fuel pump if needed.
Personally I say do it. :!:
Beats the he** out of melting on the side of the road
:lol:
 

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Discussion Starter #8
The tank is pretty much the same as the 400 I think, below the helmet trunk, so gravity feed should work.

The fuel cells have foam in them to prevent sloshing and such, and the weight shouldn't be an issue in there.

I may be able to run a hose into a fitting right into the filler neck, with a piece of hose down into the tank. This way I may be able to mount a small valve in the fuel door area. That way I could get to it at a quick stop and dump the fuel...

I'm going to pull some pieces off the Burgy next week and look at the feasibility, but it looks relatively straight-forward.
 

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Actually, our range is about par with most motorcycles, higher than a lot of them. Do you think we all want more range than average because our rides are more comfortable than the average?

Also, like most of you, I tend to get nervous when the gas gauge starts flashing, and fill up as soon as possible. Generally though, I have about a gallon left at that point - good for another easy 40 miles, or so.
 

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Straight forward or not
--Take some pictures I am sure others will be interested to see how it looks and works . 8)
 

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Discussion Starter #11
wasions said:
Actually, our range is about par with most motorcycles, higher than a lot of them. Do you think we all want more range than average because our rides are more comfortable than the average?

Also, like most of you, I tend to get nervous when the gas gauge starts flashing, and fill up as soon as possible. Generally though, I have about a gallon left at that point - good for another easy 40 miles, or so.
Well, the smallest tank I've had is 4.5, most about 4.8-5.0 is the norm. Even that extra 1/2 gallon made a lot of difference. I have legs now I simply cannot make without pushing it. Add a little headwind and I'd run out without my extra gallon.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
captainfish said:
what of the possibility of putting in a "T" in the fuel line? With the hose from the T going to the fuel cell or extra tank under the seat or in givi trunk?
I thought of that too.

I wondered though that since the aux tank would probably tend to drain first (being higher and all), would there be a point where air could be ingested into the fuel line???

I am not sure of the physics involved???

Anyone?
 

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Extra Fuel

:shock: Please don't tap into the regular fuel line with fuel from a higher tank. :shock:

Notice that all motorcycles that have a high (between the knees) tank have a fuel shutoff valve. That is to stop the pressure in the feed tube, caused by the height of the tank, from forcing fuel into the carburator and flooding it. The same goes for FI equiped bikes, there is still a throttle body that can be flooded.

You would need to add a fuel shutoff valve from your fuel bladder and an antisiphon valve to prevent drawing air from the bladder when it is empty.

When I think of all the possibilities for error :cry: , remember that gasoline is a very dangerous liquid if not handled with great care, I think carrying an extra gallon in a good quality, properly rated container is a lot safer unless you are or know well a fuel system trained engineer.

The only reason there aren't more gasoline disasters is that engineers have had over a hundred years to learn what not to do. :roll:

If you need more extra fuel than that buy a container in Canada that holds an imperial gallon or 5 litres. :)

Richard
 

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Re: Extra Fuel

Richard said:
Notice that all motorcycles that have a high (between the knees) tank have a fuel shutoff valve. That is to stop the pressure in the feed tube, caused by the height of the tank, from forcing fuel into the carburator and flooding it. The same goes for FI equiped bikes, there is still a throttle body that can be flooded.
All my carbuerated motorcycles did have a manual shutoff valve. My '03 V-Strom is fuel injected, still has the high gas tank, but does not have this manual valve. It may have an automatic valve that the fuel pump defeats by sucking or pushing gas through it under pressure - I'd bet whatever it uses works just like whatever the scooter uses - possibly from the same parts bin.

Other than that, I'm not disputing anything in your post. But FI technology has changed the way high tank motorcycles work - as well as low tank motorcycles & scooters.

And I sorely miss that manual valve, which also had a "Reserve" position. Dead accurate - unlike any motorcycle or scooter gas gauge I've seen yet.
 

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You are quite correct that FI (Fuel Injection) has changed a great number of things and a fuel shutoff may not be necessary because the injectors are only open when the computer opens them so flooding is less likely. Note I said less likely not impossible.

Injectors wear with time and after a while they can begin to leak when under pressure. In a car, that's all the time the motor is running due to the fuel pump running. In that case they cause rough running and poor acceleration and spark plug fouling due to the rich mixture caused by the injectors leaking.

In a bike with a high tank, there is no fuel pump just height to create fuel pressure. I suspect, but don't know for sure, that the Burgamn's have a fuel pump, so you have pressure when the engine is running. However, the system is not designed to have pressure when the engine is not running. Add ing extra pressure from a high tank may cause sever problems over time. :(

I'm not an expert, and I suspect that even Suzuki's experts would take a long time to figure out whether or not this would cause problems. :?

Just remember that the last thing you want is fuel going where it isn't wanted at any time. That leads to fires and explosions. :shock:

Richard
 

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Richard,

Both the Burgman and the V-Strom have fuel pumps. The high tank on the V-Strom is no longer a gravity feed, even though the tank is in the traditional location. It is a pressurized feed driven by the fuel pump, very similar to - possibly identical to the Burgman. On the V-Strom you can clearly hear the fuel pump whine as it builds pressure the moment you turn on the key. I think the fuel pump is located within the tank. There is an electrical connector on the underside of the tank that must be disconnected before removing the tank. The gas line has a push fit connector with a release collar. My understanding is that about a teaspoonful of gas leaks out when you remove the gas line - which would indicate an automatic valve of some sort. The reason I looked into this, is that on the V-Strom you have to remove the darn gas tank to access the air filter! I had wanted to check the condition of my air filter. After reading the procedure in the service manual I decided it was too much effort to do so. I'll have the dealer do it next service.
 

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Extra Fuel

Does the V-STROM have a gas gauge? If it does, I suspect those wires are for the gauge, not the fuel pump.

Fuel pumps are rarely, if ever, installed in gas tanks because of the risk of a spark, in the motor of the pump, causing an explosion in a partly empty tank.

There are two types of fuel pumps you have to be concerned about. The first type is engine driven and usually of very low pressure. Pressure behind the pump can be passed right thru the pump. The second kind, usually used by FI in cars but I don't know about bikes, is electric and usually much higher pressure. I would venture that the V-Strom uses an electric since you can hear it wind up.

In either case, when new, pressure behind the pump is not a problem. The problem comes when everything including the pump ages. Then you get flooding.

Richard
 

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Richard,


Fuel pumps are rarely, if ever, installed in gas tanks because of the risk of a spark, in the motor of the pump, causing an explosion in a partly empty tank.
I would hazard a guess that every car (EFI) has pumps in the tank ...

My Nissan, Mitsubishi, Hyundia all do ...

My Honda CB900 Hornet also had pump underside of the tank ...

Greg ...
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Greg said:
Richard,


Fuel pumps are rarely, if ever, installed in gas tanks because of the risk of a spark, in the motor of the pump, causing an explosion in a partly empty tank.
I would hazard a guess that every car (EFI) has pumps in the tank ...

My Nissan, Mitsubishi, Hyundia all do ...

My Honda CB900 Hornet also had pump underside of the tank ...

Greg ...
You're right Greg...
 
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