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Hi all, im thinking of buying a 650 Burgman, i do own a mix of other scooters at present, Spanish and Italian, but i do see a few good deals from time to time on the 650 Burgman, so question is and i hope its ok to ask this? when its probably been asked many times before? but from 2005 onwards, is there any differences in the engines of the std burgmans, differences in metals used for internal engine parts and cyls and cvt and clutch, dumb question does the 650 use a dry or wet clutch from 2005 onwards. Other thing i wanted to know is did the front wheel size change dia size over the years? thanks for your help.
 

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Derbi

Welcome to the BUSA Site . I think the best place for you to start is looking at the ]Burgman Knowledge Base which one of the BUSA Members in my local neck of the woods but together which is located at http://burgmanusa.com/bkb/tiki-index.php . I have had my Burgman 650 almost going on 4 years and it is not a garage queen it gets ridden regularly and must say it is a fun and reliable scoot!!

I believe for the most part things have stayed the same besides some minor cosmetic changes (You can not make any better something that is not broke)
The wheel size has been the same for all the 650's as far as I am aware.

The people on this site are a wonderful bunch and I expect you will find all the info you need in no time
Once again Welcome to the Best Burgman site bare none!!
 

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Yes not a lot has changed on the 650 since it was introduced. The Knowledgebase has a complete breakdown on the year by year changes. I don't think there have been any internal changes on the engine, just some changes in the throttle bodies. There have been a couple of upgrades in the CVT and in the ECM.
 

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I moved from an Italian scooter (Piaggio MP3 500) to a Burgman 650.. I liked the MP3 a lot.. I love the Burgman more.. I have put a lot more miles on it.. and it is more comfortable (for me at least) at speed on the road.. I am impressed with the availablity of parts and so on.. I feel that it was a good move for me..
 

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BTW in answer to your guestion about the clutch. All 650 have a wet clutch.
 

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You can't fix what is not broken!
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks all for the warm welcome and all the replies to my answers, i will follow the links and do some reading. Interesting that it has a wet clutch, is the clutch in the motor? or the at the rear wheel hub. I read a comment saying later models after 2005 may have different throttle bodies and ecm, does anybody know can later model ecm's be installed on older Burg's to improve fuel econ, or that wont work coz the throttle bodies are different and it will run rough. When a buyer looks at a 650, is there any tell tale signs without riding the bike if the there trick cvt is playing up and on the way out, im talking about funny sounds or rattles when the motor is idling and pressing the different gbox modes on the handle bar switch. Good to hear the front wheel size hasnt changed, no need to swap wheels around from one model to another. Yes i do like Gilera mp3 they make a nice 500, being an owner of italian scooters the biggest problem is parts and finding a decent shop. Does Suzuki do a good job of welding and painting their Burg frames? does the paint last and is it thick enough? and strong enough? is it good against time? meaning rust and corrosion. Italian manufactures build very heavy sold frames, but depending on what day of the week it is? the welding can be rubbish and all italian frames i have worked on and seen the paint on the frames is very poor, very thin and rust comes calling very quickly, i hope Suzuki do a better job on their burg frames, i would be interested to hear, thankyou.
 

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Nothing is mounted on the swingarm except a gear final drive that transfers power from the frame mounted engine/cvt/clutch back to the rear wheel. The 650 is not set up like most scooters with the powertrain all in the back. It is set up like a conventional motercycle with the powertrain mounted forward in the frame. The engine is up between your feet under the step through.
!
The clutch is carried in a housing that is cast into the crank case and it shares oil with the engine. For that reason you have to use an oil that is safe for use with wet clutches.
 

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While you could in theory use a later model ECM in an earlier bike it is not as simple as just plugging it in. Everything in the electrical system would have to match. You might have to change out things like the insturment cluster or the throttle bodies or other things.
 

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To answer your question about Suzuki frames paint and rust.

YES :lol:

Have a look in the 400 section for a report on a current strip and restore.

The issue is common with all Burgmans and probably all Suzukis, especially if you live In maritime environment and/or salt is used on winter roads. The general scabiness that ensues is probably not life limiting to the frame per se, but it does look horrendous. The paint finish allied to poor frame finishing especially in way of welds is just really unfit for purpose and a tad short sighted as it would not cost very much to remedy this assembly issue. I have had my bike from new and got it naked immediately and treated with ACF50 as a precautionary measure.
 

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Have to disagree slightly Norman. It is very much climate dependent. Neither my 7 year old 400 or my 6 year old 650 shows any sign of frame rust. I have never done any thing to them to prevent rustng.
 

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Newer does not equal better in all things. My 2003 got 54 - 57 MPG, my 2008 gets 47 - 51 MPG. My 03's top speed was clocked at 122 MPH on Lidar (Laser), my 08 will go to 106 MPH. There a few things I like better on the 03, but more things I like on the 08.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
thankyou for the replies, some good info there, sounds like a mixed bag about the frames, spose like everything depends where one lives (near an ocean) or salt used on roads in winter. Interesting the Burg is built more like a bike than a scooter, so it should handle better. Sounds like if i want speed i should be looking at Burgs under 2005. I spose the reason being is as the years go by govts put more pressure on manufactures to supply engines that produce less pollution = less power in many cases, bit of trade off i spose, the later models will have some nice rider features, that the earlier bikes wont have, horses for courses. When it comes to rusty frames, i strip them completely and have them bead blasted and then i use a Australian made product called Xtroll rust converter, even though there should not be any rust after bead blasting, its a preventive measure to paint the entire frame to seal everything up, Xtroll is used by the Au govt on all railway equipment, as the last thing you want to be doing is going way out in the middle of know where to fix some thing rusty, the idea is prep it good, Xtroll it and forget for a very time. Just of interest regarding clutches, is there a average life span on them? not so much time, but miles of riding, yes depends on city or hwy riding :) thanks again for all the good info.
 

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Buffalo said:
Have to disagree slightly Norman. It is very much climate dependent. Neither my 7 year old 400 or my 6 year old 650 shows any sign of frame rust. I have never done any thing to them to prevent rustng.
Yes disagree if you must, but only if you ignore that I actually said "if you live In maritime environment and/or salt is used on winter roads. " :lol: Which does have a link, however tenuous, with climate.
 

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True, but you said "The issue is common with all Burgmans and probably all Suzukis" then qualified it with an especially. More accurate would have been to just qualify it with the environment notation and not imply that there is a rusting problem no matter the environment.
 

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Derbi, I am the only one to have posted a speed over 110 MPH. There were some that called me a fibber(LIAR). The 03 650 I had was faster than most around here, one of those "Fluke of Nature" things. The RPM limiter is at 8500 RPM but I could pull 9100 RPM before it would start to "STUTTER". Don't pick an older one just for top speed, there are a few problems on the 02-04 650's that have been (semi) corrected on the 05 up models.

My story of the 122 MPH is from 2008: posting.php?mode=quote&f=4&p=302709

Dave_J said:
I am one of the fast ones I guess. I was clocked on lazer and GPS both at 122 MPH. It was at about 70 Deg, 5000 feet above sea level, me at 205 LBS and about 75 LBS cargo. The GPS unit said the run was downhill by about 60 feet in the 1.5 mile run.The GPS unit was on a 1000cc V Strom and the Lazer was a Wyoming Stater that had pulled us over for doing 82 in a 75. He dident think a "SCOOTER" should be able to do 82 MPH. I informed him that we had reports of these MAXI-SCOOTERS doing at least 110 MPH. He said "No way, you would have to show me that". He had me go back about 1.5 miles and come at him at full charge. So the V Strom and I did. In our crusing group was the two up riders on the V Strom, a two up Goldwing and a Honda F4 600cc so I had witness's of him saying it was ok, no ticket. I havent had it over 100 ever agian, but just that once... As the song said "Thats my S S Story and I'm S S Sticking to it". DaveJ
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Dave, thanks for the tips and info. So in your own opinion is the 05 a good model (i have my eye on an 05 at present) or am i better to go for an 06 or save more and go for an 07? interesting little speed story :) in case your wondering why your bike goes better than others? i bet my last dollar your engine was run in differently, strange as it seems the first 5oo miles min on a new engine is the key to it all. What was the problems with the 02-04 models. It sounds like it could be a mixed bag regarding the frame quality or rather the frame paint, sounds like its all depending on where you live and ride? there is one paint im currently looking at to use on one of my touring Piaggio's. Its name is L.I.C (lite Industrial Commercial) sounds like it could be quite good for bike frames, members are welcome to check it out. Thanks to the other members for the feedback. Anybody had any horror clutch stories? are the 650's clutches pretty much bullet proof? what sort of miles can ppl ''generally'' get out of the clutch. Going back to the toggling question of the different gearbox modes, is there any way of telling if some thing is not right but starting the engine and letting it idle and toggling through the modes, ie. a rattle or bang in a certain mode is there is a problem? id be interested if anybody has had or heard of anything. Thankyou.
 

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I have had cheap 150/250 scooters for me and my wife. I tore up my 250 using it on the highway. Since we knew we would keep riding I looked at bigger scooters and compared the Silverwing, Majesty/TMax, Burgman and for the amount of highway riding I do there was just no contest. I bought a 2011 650 in Jan 2012 new and its awesome. I got a 400 for my wife and now she wants a 650. You can ge and t some good used deals. If its over 10,00 miles verify they had the valves checked. If they did not you may have some unexpected costs. Used I would stay with 2K9 or newer
 

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joeycycles said:
I have had cheap 150/250 scooters for me and my wife. I tore up my 250 using it on the highway. Since we knew we would keep riding I looked at bigger scooters and compared the Silverwing, Majesty/TMax, Burgman and for the amount of highway riding I do there was just no contest. I bought a 2011 650 in Jan 2012 new and its awesome. I got a 400 for my wife and now she wants a 650. You can ge and t some good used deals. If its over 10,00 miles verify they had the valves checked. If they did not you may have some unexpected costs. Used I would stay with 2K9 or newer
valves don't get checked until 14,500
 

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Last summer I was coming home from Nashville, TN, pulling my trailer behind my 650. At one point, going downhill, the unadjusted speed was 105mph, so about 95mph pulling a 200lb trailer. Roads were smooth and straight, only hills to climb. After that I slowed down a bit. It's hard to drink my tea while cruizing at 100mph.
 
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