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Discussion Starter #1
The last several services have been 3500 miles apart, following Suzuki's maintenance chart in the 650 owner's manual. The last several services have been at 4000, 7500 and 11000 miles. So I quite logically figured that the next service would be at 14500 miles. Wrong.

I am close to the 14500 mileage mark so I pulled out my owner's manual today to see what needed to be done. The next service is shown at 15000 miles - a 4000 mile interval from the last service! It calls for all oils to be changed, tighten chassis nuts & bolts, and that first valve clearance inspection.

15000 miles is also the last service column on the chart! There is no page two... So I guess from that point on I am on my own as far as what I have done and when. So I did some thinking.

I was considering going back to standard lubricants. Now I am thinking that I'll stick with the synthetics and extend my service intervals out to every 5000 miles. I'm out of warranty anyway, so that isn't a concern. I'm going to kick that around with the service manager and see what he thinks.

I'm also going to talk to him about the valve check. The 650 is running great. They are in their busy season at the dealer shop. I am going to discuss deferring that until September. The maintenance chart suggests changing engine coolant and brake fluids at 2 year intervals, and I'll be at 2 years in September. They shouldn't be all that busy then & it might be a good time to have that all done at once.

Any thoughts from other high mileage riders?
 

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Allwalk has a picture in his gallery of the 650's maintenance schedule. It shows the last one at 14,500 miles:

http://burgmanusa.com/gallery/allwalk/6 ... e_Schedule

Maybe his is from a different model year, but I think it makes more sense that it's at the same 3500mile interval. I would probably loop back to the 4000 mile maintenance next at 18,000 miles.
 

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The Owner's Manual (the same one that has the wrong information on how to reset the oil change indicator) says 15,000 miles, but the Service Manual says 14,500.

Frankly, I wouldn't sweat a 500 mile difference. Except for the first service I've gone a bit over on all my services, and the service manager said it's no big deal. (Of course, should I need warranty work, Suzuki might say otherwise.)
 

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PAUL

I think you are right to take a pragmatic approach to this. As you say the bike is out of warranty AND it has now 'bedded in' nicely. The oil changes need to be done around the specified mileage intervals but all the rest of that stuff (coolant/brake fluid changes and the valve check) can wait until the riding season is over!! :twisted:
 

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Doesn't anyone find it a bit scary?

Doesn't anyone find it a bit scary that there are no maintanence indicators past 15,000 miles? Even my car manual goes past 100,000! The Burgmans should have an expected lifespan of more than 15K! :shock:

Paul: From a mechanics stand point. If you have switched to synthetics DO NOT switch back to regular. I don't know about bikes but that is NOT a good thing for a car. It messes with the seals and more. Don't take the chance. You can go longer intervals with synthetic so the cost isn't really much more.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Frugality and all,

Allwalk and I both have 2003 AN650s. The only differences are that his is Silver, mine is Blue - and his is a Canadian market model. My owner's manual has 15000 where his has 14500. Could have some fun with this - like obviously the Silver ones need more frequent servicing! :lol: But I am going to wait until 15,000. I changed my engine oil and filter just a month ago - I don't like running on the oil that has been sitting in the crankcase over the Winter. As for future service intervals, I will probably go to 4000 or 5000 - I think 3500 is excessive when using synthetics.

ScubaGirl,

I don't think Suzuki is indicating that the scooter has an expected lifespan of 15000 miles. This is just consistent with their usual inferior customer support. (My cars, like yours, have maintenance tables that go past 100,000 miles in their owners manuals.) Japanese motorcycles will easily go over 100,000 miles given reasonable care and maintenance. I suspect that the Burgman should do the same. As for the lubricants, I will stay with the synthetics. But I am definitely going to extend my service intervals, probably to 5000 miles. That stuff is too expensive to dump at 3500 mile intervals.
 

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HI Paul!

As being only 1 or 2 members that have actually done the valves themselves, I say ride it. It would be too much lost time waiting for the dealers to do it this time of year. You don't have the V-Strom to fall back on. My valves needed no touching what so ever and I only switched to synthechtics last weekend. I think you have no worries at all.
 

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I wouldn't worry about the manual stopping at 15,000. I'm sure they figure that's the most anyone will put on the bike under warranty, and so they tell you how to make sure you get warranty coverage.

I would suspect these scooters could go 100,000 miles. There is another factor, though. TIME is what will wear down your scooter. If you put 20,000 miles on each year then you'll have 100,000 in five years. I'd suspect all the rubber and gaskets, wires, and such will still be in good shape. I had a 1985 Honda 250 Elite that had only 9000 miles on it when I sold it 20 years later. It needed new rubber, new gaskets, new cables, a new seat cover, a new windscreen, and other engine parts that had worn out not from use but from age. Yet with all that work done, that scooter still scoots around town.

My point? Don't be shy about putting miles on your scooters. They were built to run more than they were built to last.

Dave B.
 

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I didn't mean to make it sound like I was nit-picking about 14,500 vs. 15,000 miles. I think it's just a typeo in the manual.

It's generally assumed that the maintenance schedule is repeated beyond what's listed. You'll see a pattern there as the 4 main services go I, R, I, R, (inspect/replace), or -, -, -, R. I think my VW Golf's manual has a note that says to go back and start over with the maintenance schedule when you reach the end.

Beyond the warranty period, you can 'flex' your maintenance and not worry about it too much. My diesel Golf gets synthetic oil at 10k mile intervals, and I've gone as long as 11k before replacing it. People have done analyses on oil changes and found that even 10k for my car is conservative; the oil really could go another 5k. Likewise, I had the brake fluid flushed at the 2-year mark per VW's schedule, but it's been another 3 years since and I haven't gotten around to it yet. It's not the end of the world. The car has 146k miles on it in 5 years and is going strong. I hope for 300k miles out of it.
 

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You'll prolly get it too. I was able to get 300k out of my old 79 bmw 320i before i sold it to a newbie jet jock fresh outta pensacola fork an knife school. i ran synthetics in that. i miss that lil gem (sorta - it didnt have AC..) I bet that that lil rust free 320 is plying the waters somewhere out in Texas right about now, and still purring along.
 

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Re: Doesn't anyone find it a bit scary?

ScubaGirl said:
Doesn't anyone find it a bit scary that there are no maintanence indicators past 15,000 miles? Even my car manual goes past 100,000! The Burgmans should have an expected lifespan of more than 15K! :shock:
If I recall, the average rider in the USA only rides about 3500 miles per year (up from just 2500 a decade ago) and Suzuki probably figures most riders will trade in or trade up before 4 years have passed.

Many riders, of course, put on many more miles than that, and we Burgman owners seem to be part of that group. 15,000 miles in my Owner's Manual chart (or 14,500 by my Service Manual) isn't the expected life of the bike, just a cut-off point for the chart. Maybe they're trying to save paper.

My Ford Ranger Owner's Manual only went up to 50,000 or 75,000 if I recall, and I now have 121,305 miles on it (I know, because Jiffy Lube reminded me by mail that I have a service due, and the sticker they put on my windshield says "121,218." I'll get it done tomorrow.)
 

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I have had car manuals that say "after 100,000 mi., start from the beginning of the chart again". (loosely translated, of course)

Other than the 600 mi service, I'd just start at the next one and follow the generally recommended guidelines for the work listed between 4000 and 15000.

WLB :)
 

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Alwalk's Manual

Km 1000 6000 12000 18000 24000
Miles 600 4000 7500 11000 14500
Mths 1 6 12 18 24

My Manual AN650K5

Km 1000 6000 12000 18000 24000
Miles 600 4000 7500 11000 14500
Mths 2 12 24 36 48


I am taking my bike in to-day for the 1000Km check

I am also taking my manual to point out exactlyh what has to be done
because I don't think the service manager really knows - the last time
I talked to him he talked about valves and things and my manual doesn't
mention that until WAY DOWN the ROAD.....either 18000 or 24000Km

Gone BUMP
 

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Bump said:
...I am also taking my manual to point out exactlyh what has to be done because I don't think the service manager really knows - the last time I talked to him he talked about valves and things and my manual doesn't mention that until WAY DOWN the ROAD.....either 18000 or 24000Km...
Yep. Suzuki sent dealers the wrong info, and haven't corrected it yet. The valve service recommendations are for the 400, not the 650 which has a different valve system.
 

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My 1992 Suzuki GSX1100G had a maintenance table that went to 100,000 miles - but only becasue servicing the shaft drive was recommended every 50,000? miles. I think they show enough to define the intervals and then expect everyone to recognize the intervals and continue on ad infinitum... I'm confident they expect more than a 15,000 mile life on the scooters - or the warranty would not be for unlimited mileage.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I scheduled my 15000 mile (or 14500 mile depending on which release of the owner's manual you have) service today. I'll be dropping the 650 off next Tuesday.

I talked to the service manager about several issues.

I asked about deferring the valve clearance inspection until the Fall when they are less busy. He advised against that. He said if the maintenance table specifies that the first valve clearance check be done now, it would be unwise to postpone it.

I asked about extending future maintenance intervals to 4000 or even 5000 miles since I am running full synthetic lubricants. He advised me to stay on a 3500 mile interval. He said that he had seen the insides of a Kawasaki Vulcan engine that had run synthetic oil and had been changed according to schedule. He said that it looked worse than if they had run conventional oil. :shock:

Based on that, I asked him if I should go back to regular motorcycle oil. He said no. Once you have changed to synthetic you should stick with it. He really couldn't substantiate that opinion to my satisfaction, but I didn't press him that hard. I was asking for, and getting, his opinion. He lives with motorcycle maintenance constantly so I figure his recommendations do carry some weight. And with oil issues, you always get a lot of opinion & beliefs - very little in the way of hard facts.

There was a "newbie" working with him on the service desk. After I told Marty that I needed a 15000 mile service on my Burgman 650, the newbie asked "what is that?". I told him it is a Suzuki 650cc motor scooter. With an incredulous expression, he said "you've put 15000 miles on that?". I stared straight into his eyes with my best "hard ass" expression an asked exactly what he had trouble understanding about that. He mumbled something and went back to his computer screen. Sigh... It looks like I've got somebody else to whip into shape. Everyone else at the dealership knows I am "Mr Burgman". This new guy will get in line - or I'll have him for lunch! :twisted: :lol:
 

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pauljo said:
With an incredulous expression, he said "you've put 15000 miles on that?".
I'd said something like, "Yeah ... I know. I've not been able to ride much this year yet." :p
 

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billmeek said:
pauljo said:
With an incredulous expression, he said "you've put 15000 miles on that?".
I'd said something like, "Yeah ... I know. I've not been able to ride much this year yet." :p
:lol: Good come back!

And in my case it would be true. :cry:

Darned rain! Every day this week there was at least a 30% chance of showers, and several days it was 100% heavy rains.

If June doesn't get better I may have to break out my rain suit and get used to using it!

I'll have had it for a year next month, and I don't even have 11,000 miles yet! :(
 

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pauljo said:
I asked about deferring the valve clearance inspection until the Fall when they are less busy. He advised against that. He said if the maintenance table specifies that the first valve clearance check be done now, it would be unwise to postpone it.
If the valves haven't been checked yet, then yes get them checked and adjusted if needed.

I asked about extending future maintenance intervals to 4000 or even 5000 miles since I am running full synthetic lubricants. He advised me to stay on a 3500 mile interval. He said that he had seen the insides of a Kawasaki Vulcan engine that had run synthetic oil and had been changed according to schedule. He said that it looked worse than if they had run conventional oil. :shock:
Perhaps, but I'd bet dollars to dounts that there was some other issue with that motor. Like a bad oil pump or high revs directly after start up. I would have no issues with a well broken in motor going 5 to 6k miles between oil changes on synth. If you're using a quality oil filter, don't do a lot of short trips or ride in dusty conditions often.

Based on that, I asked him if I should go back to regular motorcycle oil. He said no. Once you have changed to synthetic you should stick with it.
Conventional wisdom is that once you switch you shouldn't go back. The primary reason sited are this. The differnet make up of some synth oils can make seals swell. Once the seal has absorbed the material and swolen it can lead to new leaks when going back to dyno oil. There also supposedly can be issues with mixing oils.

From my experience and what I've learned speaking with a research chemist, and gearhead friend of mine is that while the seal issue can happe n in some cases it's usualy not a problem. If it does happen, it can almost always be fixed by switching back to synth again. The mixing issue was seen when synth oils first were introduced but any modern oil shouldn't have the issue. Most of them even state on the bottle they are fully compatible with any oil.

Also, your concern about leaving used oil in the engine over the winter is correct. Combustion byproducts make the oil acidic, parking the bike for an extended period of time will promote corrosion. Same for short runs (less the 10 or so miles) on cold days, moisture will condense in the motor as it cools down. Thats why it's not good to start it up in the garage for a few minutes every week while stored either.

As always, YMMV

Hope this sheds some light on the subject.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
CenTX Tom,

Thanks for your comments. I too think that it is a waste of money to pay for synthetic oil and dump it at 3500 mile intervals. I don't do a lot of stop & go driving. The only issue I see in extending the service intervals is that they are also supposed to check critical nuts & bolts and torque as necessary. However, I suspect that at most shops this is simply not done.
 
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