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I have a 650 burgman with a lot of extras. I have 2 batteries. I would like to eliminate one of the batteries and upgrade the charging system - does anyone have any suggestions?
 

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I have not seen anyone that offers a higher capacity charging system for the 650. You might talk to some of the companies that do rebuilds of stators and see what they say.
 

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Funny you should ask ... I'm a retired EE thinking that I should design a modern/efficient rectifier/regulator to replace the old-style shunt regulators that supposedly cause excess heat in the alternator stator. Turns out that it's not a trivial engineering problem, thanks to the huge (8:1) variation in frequency and output voltage of the permanent-magnet alternator from idle to redline. I've been communicating with the chairman of a well-known west-coast EE department who had the same idea and encountered other interesting problems (voltage on his stator coil soaring at light load to the point where the insulation on the stator wires failed -- his MC wasn't a Suzuki though). If I make any progress I'll share it with the group.

First step is to create a benchtop alternator with which to develop the circuit. Anyone have a parts-bike 650 crankcase with good stator and rotor (and crankshaft and bearings, no pistons or rods or top end please) to lend?
 

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It appears that the manufacturer of the "gold standard" FH020 MOSFET shunt regulator, Shindengen, is working on a new generation of series regulators for one of their OEMs:

http://www.shindengen.co.jp/product_e/electro/catalog.html

(scroll down a little)

The schematic they show for their "under development" SHxx2 series regulator is <exactly> what my first back-of-envelope schematic looked like when I started thinking about this problem. They have an SH775 series regulator available now, but it's too whimpy for the 650's 500W alternator. The SH775 is used on Polaris ATVs and is supposedly available from Polaris dealers for under $70.

Because they're series topology instead of shunt, they should be easier on the alternator stator, <theoretically.> The issue with series regulation is that the voltage on the stator windings can soar to the point where it punches through the insulation on the wire. An EE prof who home-built a series regulator for his Kawasaki ZX750 found this out the hard way (we've talked, his regulator is interesting but I don't think it would handle the Lardy's alternator either).

I've been discussing this fascinating problem with an old dear EE friend of mine who designs power systems for military and commercial satellites. As I suspected, delivering regulated DC power at high efficiency from a motorcycle permanent-magnet alternator would be neither easy nor inexpensive. The main problem is that **** 12V electrical system with which we're saddled (as a sailor, we have the same maddening problems in boats because they use 12V systems also).

Although the "traditional" regulators available for motorcycles, both series and shunt, waste a significant amount of power (think "heat"), they're fairly simple and amazingly robust considering how they abuse the semiconductors in them by running at such high temperatures.

So I suppose I'll give my brain a rest from this problem and wait for the higher-current Shindengen series regulator to become available.
 

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Use it or lose it, when you get to be an old fart. Talking about my brain now, get your minds out of the gutter.
 

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Why can't you transplant an existing charging system from a bigger Suzuki bike like C90T or something instead designing something ground up?
 

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Without checking, I doubt that any other Suzuki motorcycle has significantly higher alternator capacity then the Burgman 650.
Suzuki dropped the luxury tourer market when they discontinued the Cavalcade many years ago, and that's where there might have been a chance for an upgrade.

IMHO the only way to get spare watts is to replace all bulbs with LED's
 

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The Cavalcade was notorious for failed regulator/rectifiers, and stators. They failed like clockwork. Cavalcade owners tried upgraded regulator/ rectifiers, wiring etc... and nothing seemed to help. Many owners carried spare reg/rectifiers, stators, batteries etc in the saddlebags when going on long trips.
 

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Great information--I liked it.

The simple permanent magnet field (PMF, aka "rotor") generator is indeed the issue. Because of it the generator's output is fixed depending on rotor (engine) rpm; meaning that at any but idle speed (and probably there too) it is usually generating more power than is needed.

However unlike like an automotive style <i>field controlled</i> generator--in which the regulator <i>regulates</i> generator output by controlling current flow through the field coil, thus limiting generator output--the "regulator" on our scoots just dumps excess generator output (as heat) to keep the scoot's electrical components and battery from burning up. Increase the generator's output beyond the regulator's capacity to shed that heat and the regulator will burn up.

Counter-intuitively, in a shunt regulated PMF generator adding electrical load at higher engine speeds will make the regulator's life a bit easier as it will not have to "burn up" as much power to keep the system voltage where it should be...
 

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I'm converting to LEDs on the 650's power-hog lamps (brake/tail lights and turn signals) so I may try the Shindengen SH775 series regulator just out of curiosity. It's available from Polaris ATV dealers (part # 4012941).

Did I scare the O.P. off?
 

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Between Cliff, a few others and I, we could boar ya to tears on the tech "How it works" of a motorcycle charging system. Just belive that you can not fix the problem just by lowering the amparge draw by using LED bulbs and such. The Stator still cranks out the same amount of power.

This is the main reason on 99% of the Goldwing sites have many topics on modifing in a GM automotive 1 wire alternator system and abandoning the Stator system.
 

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I'm converting to LEDs on the 650's power-hog lamps (brake/tail lights and turn signals) so I may try the Shindengen SH775 series regulator just out of curiosity. It's available from Polaris ATV dealers (part # 4012941).

Did I scare the O.P. off?
The potential problem (no pun intended) I see with this is that the 650 generator is as we have discussed a fixed output device, said output dependent on engine speed and engine speed alone. So, as you reduce the "normal" system load (with LED lighting for instance) you are asking the regulator to dissipate more of the generator's surplus output.

Not knowing exactly how the series SCRs in the SH775 are configured (switching or current control), this may not be an issue, however that excess energy has to go someplace--if not shed as heat through the rectifier/regulator's heat sink (SCRs limiting current), it will be returned to the stator as reverse EMF (SCRs switching).

Remember, you cannot create or destroy that stuff, just convert it to some other form...
 

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Roadstercycle now has a complete kit with a 50 AMP Shindengen SH847 series R/R: $199



This is from a test of the smaller SH775 on an old GS1000:
Quote:
Here are some test results comparing my old shunt SH-232 R/R to the series SH-775.

Disclaimer- I have no idea how accurate my ac current clamp meter is at frequencies above 60 Hz; I know it's accurate on 3 phase 60 Hz stuff. I suspect it might be pretty good at 120 Hz (1200 rpm), but at 400 Hz, who knows.
On the good old SH-232;
at 1200 rpm, stator line current = 6.5 amp ; R/R output 12.8 volts DC
at 4000 rpm, stator line current = 11 amp; R/R output 14.2 volts DC

On the SH-775
at 1200 rpm, stator line current = 6.7 amp; R/R output 13.0 volts DC
at 4000 rpm, stator line current = 6.8 amp; R/R output 14.2 volts DC

With the SH-775, turning off headlight, resulted in an immediate drop of stator line current to 3.5 amp at 1200 rpm.
Series R/R is the way to go.
 

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Why do you need any more power than the current battery/charging system from a 2016 model? It runs seat/grip heaters and with them off you have extra.
 
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