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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all,
I just bought a 2007 Exec and I noticed that the front brake didn't feel as solid as the rear as it seemed to pull back further before I felt resistance. I haven’t checked the brake pad wear but the scoot only has 7k miles so I don't imagine they are used up. Is this feeling difference normal? (both fluid reservoirs appear full)


Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
Steve
 

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Well Steve, welcome to the forum. On the difference front to rear, I think that has to do with two calipers up front and only one in the rear. You are the proportioning valve front to rear so you become use to the differences and adjust. You can adjust the levers to your finger length too. I have mine on 4 or 2 whatever is for long fingers.
 

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You say it doesn't feel as solid. If it feels spongy, that's a sign of air in the lines. It can't hurt to bleed the brakes. Get a fresh bottle of brake fluid and flush some through. It's good to get the fluid changed in the calipers every couple of years. The same fluid stays in the caliper and goes through all of the heating and cooling cycles.
 

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I think it is because you are sending fluid to 2 calipers in the front an only 1 in the rear. The brake lever will move more because it is pushing more fluid out. This works the same on motorcycles but you don't feel the difference because you are doing the front with your hand and the rear with your foot.
 

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Liquid does not compress.
You could have 6 calipers, and it should feel as solid as one.
I vote for air in the system
JimV
 

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Ya, feel wise, mine are the same. Same amount of travel, no sponginess. I'd bleed the brakes. Couldn't hurt to try.
 

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Liquid does not compress.
You could have 6 calipers, and it should feel as solid as one.
I vote for air in the system
JimV
Liquid does not compress but when it moves the pistons in two calipers instead of one, the movement of the pistons in two calipers rather than one takes more fluid as they push two sets of brake pads instead of one.
 

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Mine feel the same (F&R), I have them adjusted to where it takes very little movement of the lever to put the brakes on, I adjust all my bikes that way.

John
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Wow! Thanks for all the responses. This site is amazing.

I wouldn't say the brake is spongy really, it just doesn't seem to engage as early as the rear. Soon after pulling the rear i feel the engagement. On the front i have to pull longer before it engages. if the pull on the rear before engagements was for instance 1/8" the pull on the front would be close to 1/4". I thought it might be the pad have prematurely worn down but I thought I would check to see if it normal first.

Now I am very perplexed. Since it doesn't appear to be normal and the brakes don't really feel spongy I'm not sure what it could be - I would have gone with the two caliper theory but since not everybody feels the difference it might be something else.

Ok, time to do some more digging.

BTW - when i first got the scoot I was happy but it just didn't seem as good as I had read it was. I gave it a once over and noticed the tires were very low. Once I got them to the right pressure I took another ride. DANG - this scoot is really quick. I think I'll have it for a very long time. My last motorcycle was an F650 which was fun but not as fun as my old Vespa P200s. I guess I just like scooters better.

Thanks folks.
Steve
 

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Steve, try this trick. Use a wire tie, bungy or anything that stays tight but is easy to remove. Put it over the hand grip and the brake levers and squeese them kind of snug. Let set over night and see if in the morning its better. This gets the fluid down in the master cylinder where some air bubbles may have collected.

Most thick fluids do not compress much, air is a fluid but it has so much space around its molecules that it can be compressed immensely.
 

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Wow! Thanks for all the responses. This site is amazing.

I wouldn't say the brake is spongy really, it just doesn't seem to engage as early as the rear. Soon after pulling the rear i feel the engagement. On the front i have to pull longer before it engages. if the pull on the rear before engagements was for instance 1/8" the pull on the front would be close to 1/4". I thought it might be the pad have prematurely worn down but I thought I would check to see if it normal first.

Now I am very perplexed. Since it doesn't appear to be normal and the brakes don't really feel spongy I'm not sure what it could be - I would have gone with the two caliper theory but since not everybody feels the difference it might be something else.


Thanks folks.
Steve
Let's think about this 2 caliper thing a moment. If the fluid necessary to move the caliper on the rear enough to engage takes 1/8" of travel, doesn't it make sense that it would take twice as much fluid to move 2 calipers? The wear on the pads have no effect on the travel because the pistons move and provide a constant distance from the rotor regardless of the thickness of the pad. The difference between the front and rear brakes on my 650 is the same as it was on my 400. I don't think you have a problem.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Osbornk,

I see that you have the tailblazers. Nobody in town stocks them so do you have an online retailer you like a lot for stuff like that? I had one on my last bike and really likes it. I thought I would get the 20W-D two pack of bulbs instead of installing the back off system just because of the ease of install.
 

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Osbornk,

I see that you have the tailblazers. Nobody in town stocks them so do you have an online retailer you like a lot for stuff like that? I had one on my last bike and really likes it. I thought I would get the 20W-D two pack of bulbs instead of installing the back off system just because of the ease of install.
It'd odd that you mention the lights. They were on my scooter when I got it but I ordered one for my V-Star last week. I found them on E-Bay and it was delivered in about 2 days. I ordered one for the V-Star but I just looked up the 2 pack and they have them for $20 under MSRP. They are here: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kisan-20W-D-tailBlazer-2-Pak-/300582392259?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item45fc1b51c3
 

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Here is another problem, I was changing brake fluid in the rear and sucked in air, now I have air in AB S, I tried alot of bleeding ,no help, may try to lay bike over, and bleed the rear brake, If i make a hard left turn the rear brake is hard to pull at first and the abs light comes on. I left the top off master cylinder overnite , no help , vaccum blead several times , no help. Bike has 73K on it. Bob, fla.
 

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Here is another problem, I was changing brake fluid in the rear and sucked in air, now I have air in AB S, I tried alot of bleeding ,no help, may try to lay bike over, and bleed the rear brake, If i make a hard left turn the rear brake is hard to pull at first and the abs light comes on. I left the top off master cylinder overnite , no help , vaccum blead several times , no help. Bike has 73K on it. Bob, fla.
I had a problem with air in the rear brake line on my AN650K7 which must have occurred when I had the brake reservoir top off while removing then refitting the rear wheel and new brake pads, to relieve pressure so I could get the pistons seated a couple of months ago. When I buttoned everything together it wasn't obvious at first that there was a problem with the rear brake, since when I first pumped the LHS brake lever, priming the calipers everything seemed fine. Over a period of time, the lever would become increasingly spongy until there was no resistance in the lever. This might be one day, two days or on occasion once or more times within a day. I bleed the rear brake several times every other day for a few weeks. Sometimes the lever would be spot-on resistance wise for days at a time, then other days it would become soft either overnight or while out riding. It was obvious there was air in the line. I tried a few tricks e.g. reservoir cover off overnight, with lever compressed held to the bar with a couple of elastic type bands. Not much seemed to remedy the situation and I thought I'd have to do a full flush and bleed of the complete brake line/system, until one day I decided stuff it, I'll give this priming the lever/calipers a real work out. I had a bottle of brake fluid with me, proceeded to prime the brake lever multiple times then applying pressure/squeezing the lever and used a elastic band to keep the pressure on, as I released the bleed nipple on the backside of the brake calliper assembly. Air came out interspersed with some fluid. Tightened the nipple, and then primed that lever again and again. Then again released the bleed nipple as lever was squeezed using the elastic, and then re-tightened. Basically I repeated this numerous times, even though only the first one or two times was it evident there was air being released. This procedure differed slightly from what I had been doing in that previously I'd usually prime the lever a couple of times then squeeze the lever with the elastic band, before releasing the bleed nipple, then re-tighten. I'd then grab the lever again, squeeze and hold using a elastic band and release the bleed nipple etc. What I was not doing was priming the lever enough (squeeze and release to build up enough pressure and force moving air toward the callipers. The significant priming of the brake lever worked, as I've not had any issues with the lever/brakes going spongy since. I can only assume somehow air got into the line while I had the brake reservoir cover off, and was working the pistons back into the callipers. I do recall a little fluid loss but not enough to expose the line inlet in the bottom of the reservoir.
 

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One other tip I can give when bleeding the rear brakes. Set the parking brake first. I had issues with getting a good lever feel on mine until I set the parking brake when bleeding them. Only reason I can think of for this is that the parking brake piston has passages in it that use brake fluid pressure to adjust it. Maybe air can get trapped in those unless you set the brake before bleeding.
 

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OP, I assume that you have checked to see that the adjustable brake levers are on the same position (number) when making the comparisons between front and rear brake engagement? It might seem simple, an oversight, but I sometimes experiment with altering the adjustment on one or both levers to alter feel and reach to the lever(s), and this does have an affect on how the brakes feel through the fingers/hands etc.
 

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OP, I assume that you have checked to see that the adjustable brake levers are on the same position (number) when making the comparisons between front and rear brake engagement? It might seem simple, an oversight, but I sometimes experiment with altering the adjustment on one or both levers to alter feel and reach to the lever(s), and this does have an affect on how the brakes feel through the fingers/hands etc.
Finally someone has nailed it. The simplest solution is always the hardest to find. ;)
 

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Did I not see it mentioned about the little "wheel" that adjusts the position of the handle??
JimV
 

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That was me Jim, but it was in a different brakes thread.
 
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