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Discussion Starter #1
I am considering purchasing a 250cc scooter to play with until I can purchase a 650 Burgman. I was thinking about the Kymco Grand Vista or a used Honda Reflex. I am not very familiar with the Reflex. If anyone here owns or has owned one of these, or any other 250cc other than a Helix, your input would be appreciated. 8)
 

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JD, I went from 2 Helixs' to a Reflex in '01 because it handled so much better than the Helix. I rode mine till last April when I traded for the 400 just because I wanted a tad more power and speed. I'm a big fan of the the Reflex. I rode it wide open much of the time on interstates at about 70mph with NO PROBLEMS from any of the vehicles. You will get some buffeting with any bike or scoot from the trucks...lighter your machine the more buffeting. I think it handles just as well as the 400. I recommend it highly and would not have any heartburn if I had to go back to the Reflex. I'm talking about one up, not two, as I never ride anyone. Shop for used ones as most have very low miles and you may find a good deal.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
There was an 03' Reflex on e-bay 2 days ago. It only had 198 miles and it sold for about $3000. Too bad and too late for me. :(
 

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I own a 2002 Reflex ABS and will not be parted from it. It is my dedicated all-weather commuter vehicle, and served as a wet weather alternative to my 1100 naked before I purchased the AN650.

The Reflex is better if you want the best handling, best looking and safest all weather scooter around (ABS version). It runs to an 85mph, and can cruise at 70mph without problem. It is easily as comfortable as the AN650 for all day riding.

The Kymco is better if you want to have a bit more trunk space - the Relfex can only store one full face helmet under the seat, whereas the Kymco can store 1 full face and one pudding bowl helmet or two open faced helmets under the seat.

If you are interested in a comfortable ride, perhaps the Reflex is better than the Kymco as it is known for it's very hard suspension.

If you intend to own for a short period of time, you have to consider resale value too, so hav a look around at used prices to see which holds it's value best in your locality.

I have not had a problem with my Reflex in 27,000km so I can vouch for the quality of this Honda.

Over to you.
 

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Jd, My wife and I just purchased a new reflex last Saturday so I won't have a lot of experience to relate, but I can tell you, the reflex is a whole bunch of fun to ride. We have been riding two up to the church parking lot, approx. 7 miles one way, to let my wife get some practice in and I would have to say that riding solo the reflex has much more power than with two up. We don't plan to do a much two up riding on it though. One other thing, if seat height is important to you, from what I have read about the Kymco scooters the seat height is about 2" taller.
Mike
 

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Lycheed,

I've owned the Reflex as well and can vouch for it's quality, but you're overselling it with this pitch:

"The Reflex is better if you want the best handling, best looking and safest all weather scooter around (ABS version). It runs to an 85mph, and can cruise at 70mph without problem. It is easily as comfortable as the AN650 for all day riding."

Way overselling it.

Be that as it may, the original poster was inquiring about a 250 "to play with until I can purchase a 650 Burgman", indicating short term ownership and it's related cost implications.

It's been awhile, and nice to be "talking" with you again. Hope all is, and has been, well with you and yours.
 

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Hey Bleeder. Life is good, but not without its challenges. :wink:

I think the pitch is spot on as I only speak from personal experience. Which bit did you disagree with?

IMHO, until the manufactures make a new 250/400cc big-scooter with ABS I would happily put my Reflex ABS up against any other machine – in terms of looks, handing, comfort, quality and safety. Regarding looks, North America got some pretty poor colour schemes and horrible silver wheeled editions of the Reflex. In the ’02 Japan model Pearl White with black wheels, the Reflex 250 ABS is one of the best looking big-scooters around.

Where it falls down is in it’s smaller than industry standard trunk. They tried to amend that in 2002, but 42 litres doesn’t cut it against the two-full-face-helmet consuming 55litre + trunks that are the norm today.
A minor personal gripe would be its 30W low beam. Due to it’s gasoline saving ‘idling stop’ function, the low beam is only 30W – I suppose that when the engine is killed at traffic lights, stronger 55W bulbs would drain the battery unacceptably quickly. The full beam is 60W, so no problem with there.

That said, the Grand Vista only has a 35W/35W set-up, which is far worse, and incidentally, the AN250/400 has a 35W/55W set-up, which is marginally better on the low beam yet worse on the high beam…

So with the Reflex v Grand Vista head to head, we are looking at:
• Reflex - sophisticated looks, 13 inch front wheel, 22bhp, 30W/60W headlight, soft low seat, ABS, Honda quality, sporty handling, small trunk
• Grand Vista - ‘unique’ looks, 12 inch wheels, 19bhp, 35W/35W headlights and a harder, higher seat with harder suspension, larger trunk,

This is just the technical side of things. JD may fit better on the Grand Vista which is a lot more important than figures on a spec sheet.

Again, short term users should always buy with resale in mind, so JD should go with whatever holds it’s value well in his locality – over here that would rule the Kymco out, but I don’t profess to know about pricing in JD's locality.

If I was in JD's position, I would be going at this from a different angle. I’d buy the oldest, cheapest thing I could find – that would be a 250 Honda Spacey Freeway over here – don’t know the US name for them, but they were the short wheelbase brother of the Helix. There are no ‘dud’ 250s. Buy it at 1000 bucks, and let it go for 1000 bucks. Take delivery of your brand new 650 with a smile and a full wallet. Everyone is happy.

Take care brother. 8)
 

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lycheed said:
that would be a 250 Honda Spacey Freeway over here – don’t know the US name for them, but they were the short wheelbase brother of the Helix.
Over here they're called the Honda Elite.
 

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All good points and I appreciate you taking the time. I agree with most of your points, but not all. Comparing the 250 to the 650 is, I think, overselling. Also, I weigh in at a mere buck seventy fiver but could only get my Reflex up to 80 mph. Eventually. At 70, it was maxxed out as a practical matter due to the hideously long stretch it took to get from 70 to 80. Squirting into a safe spot on the highway at 70? Fahgetaboutit. I felt like Spam in can.

I think your suggestion about getting a older honda is spot on. An Elite 250 would be a great choice.

You take care as well, and thanks for the reply.

Edit: One of my racquetball partners still rides an Elite 250: 45,000 miles and 55,000 scratches on it. My kind of scooter.
 

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I think I see where you are coming from, Sir Bleeder.

Comparison between AN650 and Reflex 250
It may seem like an odd comparison (like David and Goliath), but I suppose I do that because I own them both, and in that situation you often find yourself making comparisons. The Reflex has a more comfortable seat than the 650 for example, but less wind protection. As you know, you can combat the effects of wind/rain with motorcycle specific clothing, but an overly hard seat may not be so easy to combat. In that way, they both do the all-day riding thing very well – the Reflex just feels naughtier doing it, and feels as sporty as my race rep through tight bends. I use them for distinctly different purposes however – commuting and tandem touring – which they excel at respectively.

Highway prowess:
Maybe mine is oddly fast but the only speed limit I’ve come across is the rev limiter itself. It easily revs through into the redlined area and indicates 140km (87mph) on the flat, other riders have also commented that at times I was riding at 140km/h on group rides. I have had to roll off in fear of blowing the thing up, as opposed to dragging out every last mph. I too weigh about 165 pounds, so perhaps it’s my shape or something. Dunno. You are quite right in that there is no squirting into gaps at those speeds. It’s like driving a 1500cc 5 door hatchback with two kids in the back – you plan your maneuvers. But it’s certainly not a ‘slow lane’ vehicle on the highway – until you get to a hill.... It does get a bit windy at highway speeds, and the Beast does murder the Reflex and most other motorcycles on the highway for comfort.

Ah, a tatty Elite. 45,000 [email protected],000 scratches? Top box? Grey-silver paint? Sounds like my first feet-forward love. Classic.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Thanks to all for your feedback. After I looked into it, I may just buy a Kymco for now. Main reason is I get them at cost, which means I can buy a new Grand Vista or a People 250 for less than that 03' Reflex I found for $3000. Or maybe I'll just wait it out a little longer and take the 650 plunge. :D :D :D :D :D
 

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The Kymco also comes with a two year warrenty & at least my local dealer has a much lower hourly shop rate for labor. I'm still holding out for the new 500 cc model. Hope it comes soon & is all that I have been hoping for.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I spoke to my sales rep Saturday at the Dealer Expo. There is still no ETA on the Exciting 500. But I did find out that for 2006 they will have a 650cc scooter. We should receive more info on this by late summer.
 

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Look forward to more info on the Kymco 650. Let us know JD if you get updates.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Don't worry, I'll keep everyone updated. I may just order one when they are available, since I get them at dealer cost. I just wish we sold Suzuki :twisted: :D :D :wink:
 

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JD

Interesting news you have heard. Personally, I think it's a bit of a long shot for Kymco to build a 650 motor full stop, let alone a Japanese spec twin cylinder engine in frame 650. Whilst I would like to be proven wrong, I’m not even sure it’s worth the risk for them – and with such a promising company as they have built they won’t want to take big risks. Even the established Italians haven’t bothered to make the step to twin cylinder engine in frame, due to the cost and the returns not being guaranteed yet, so it wouldn’t make a lot of sense for Kymco to do so, either. The Xciting 500s engine is the largest they have produced, and that project is suffering delays. The only other option would be to buy in the lump and produce it under license. Whilst that would cut the R&D costs significantly, the licensing costs would push the balance the other way.

It’s also worth keeping in mind that Yamaha hasn’t bothered to increase the capacity of the Tmax from 500cc to 600cc, despite giving it a makeover last year. It’s not clear that bigger is better.

I think it would be much more likely that the Xciting 500 will be available worldwide by 2006, and that they will keep an eye on the developments of the twin cylinder market and see whether it grows significantly enough to make the 650 project feasible.

Either way, whatever comes out of their factory will be greeted with anticipation – remember the Grand Vista (Grand Dink) 250 was introduced with electric mirrors in 2001, long before the AN650.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
The engine in the 650 scooter will be based off of the 650 ATV. This is the same thing they did with the 250. They have been working on the ATV for a while now. I honestly believe they will produce the 650 in a scooter for next year. I just hope they get DOT approval on the Xciting 500 soon, as I would still like to test ride one.
 
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