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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
After owning 6 Burgman 650 in 16 years, this is a first for me. (2004, 2007, 2012, 2007, 2014, 2018)
I bought an 2018 thinking it may be my last, and now after 7,100 miles, it has developed a slippage when accelerating at normal speeds. No slippage off the line but when driving 35-40 mph or so, and accelerate, the engine revs but the wheel does not get any power until a few seconds later. Our local Suzuki shop (small town in rural Arizona) does not have many Burgmans to work on and I would like to know what to ask for so I do not end up paying for everything they can imagine to check out. Many thanks! Chuck Walker
 

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since it doesn't happen off the line, i'm not suspecting clutch, but it is at a certain speed, so maybe cvt. Try it in manual mode and tell us what happens . No F1 code is kinda strange, so it may be something else.

Was any maintenance done to it just prior to the problem? Wifey seen lurking around garage with smoking bottles of glowing chemicals? Cats gone missing?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
since it doesn't happen off the line, i'm not suspecting clutch, but it is at a certain speed, so maybe cvt. Try it in manual mode and tell us what happens . No F1 code is kinda strange, so it may be something else.

Was any maintenance done to it just prior to the problem? Wifey seen lurking around garage with smoking bottles of glowing chemicals? Cats gone missing?
Thanks, in September, I did have the oil changed at a local repair shop, not a Suzuki dealer. They order the Burgman oil kit and just do the labor. They work on my Can Am and Burgmans both and have been solid mechanics. Does an oil change have anything to do with the drive?
 

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Thanks, in September, I did have the oil changed at a local repair shop, not a Suzuki dealer. They order the Burgman oil kit and just do the labor. They work on my Can Am and Burgmans both and have been solid mechanics. Does an oil change have anything to do with the drive?
Keep us posted on this. At this point I would not suspect the oil change was a factor. As said above by mikeyMarine, try it in manual and also the power mode. If the slippage happens again, make note of the settings of all controls and conditions. No code showing is worthy of noting if the problem persists.
 

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since it doesn't happen off the line, i'm not suspecting clutch...
On the other hand, since it is happening not off the line, I'm sort of leaning back toward the clutch. Let's see if I can make sense of what I'm thinking. Like my truck (2000 Dodge Ram 2500 with a Cummins and 6 speed). I increased the torque output long ago, and after some amount of time, on the interstate and in 6th gear, if I whomped down on the far right pedal, the clutch would slip. The engine would rev, but the truck would stay about the same speed. Felt like I halfway pushed the clutch in that situation. It would not do this off the line. Why? Because in overdrive, the (how to describe this ... ) engine had leverage over the drivetrain. Say in 2nd gear the gearing is 4:1 (for example). The engine turns over 4 times to turn the driveshaft 1 turn. In that case, the driveshaft has a mechanical advantage over the engine. The engine is freer to rev.

But in overdrive (6th) the gearing is something like 0.72:1 in my truck. The engine is not as free to turn. But, the engine has so much torque after modifications that it blows on past the clutch. A 1,000 lb-ft clutch took care of that issue.

It would be much the same in the Burgman. I'm not sure if it goes beyond 1:1 with the CVT. But in any event, there's more pressure on the clutch at higher speeds.

In other words: Manually slipping a clutch away from a stop is 1 thing, but clutch clamping force comes more into play in higher gears. If his clutch has wear, I'm guessing it would tend to break clamping force at higher speeds. This is just my thinking.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
On the other hand, since it is happening not off the line, I'm sort of leaning back toward the clutch. Let's see if I can make sense of what I'm thinking. Like my truck (2000 Dodge Ram 2500 with a Cummins and 6 speed). I increased the torque output long ago, and after some amount of time, on the interstate and in 6th gear, if I whomped down on the far right pedal, the clutch would slip. The engine would rev, but the truck would stay about the same speed. Felt like I halfway pushed the clutch in that situation. It would not do this off the line. Why? Because in overdrive, the (how to describe this ... ) engine had leverage over the drivetrain. Say in 2nd gear the gearing is 4:1 (for example). The engine turns over 4 times to turn the driveshaft 1 turn. In that case, the driveshaft has a mechanical advantage over the engine. The engine is freer to rev.

But in overdrive (6th) the gearing is something like 0.72:1 in my truck. The engine is not as free to turn. But, the engine has so much torque after modifications that it blows on past the clutch. A 1,000 lb-ft clutch took care of that issue.

It would be much the same in the Burgman. I'm not sure if it goes beyond 1:1 with the CVT. But in any event, there's more pressure on the clutch at higher speeds.

In other words: Manually slipping a clutch away from a stop is 1 thing, but clutch clamping force comes more into play in higher gears. If his clutch has wear, I'm guessing it would tend to break clamping force at higher speeds. This is just my thinking.
Something to consider, thanks Chuck
 

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Thanks, in September, I did have the oil changed at a local repair shop, not a Suzuki dealer. They order the Burgman oil kit and just do the labor. They work on my Can Am and Burgmans both and have been solid mechanics. Does an oil change have anything to do with the drive?
not unless they changed the oil that lubes the clutch, then, a wrong oil can cause slipping, but since it doesn't slip under the heaviest load, (off the line ) It's not on the top of my suspect list. Burgman oil kit ? whazzat?
I know an engine oil change isn't likely to cause this, but I once took a truck in to have the front bumper changed (a little fender bender thingy involving my truck, 3 cars a mobile home and a refreshing beverage or 6) and when I went back to pick it up , the windshield had been replaced, (and the bumper was such poor quality a pressure washer blew the chrome off it. )
That was my LAST time imbibing before driving. Never again!


ok after reading that post, maybe a clutch slippage test is in order, it's easy, and cheap. (like the kitty kat klub parkin lot cuties) and I think the procedure is on here somewhere, a search and a couple seconds on the bike will git er done .
 

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Would not be the first to use the wrong spec oil and then had issues.
Some get away with it.

If they used JASO MB oil then this could be an issue. But the shop may swear they used JASO MA oil..... A Burgman 400 can use JASO MB, a Burgman 650 can NOT.

I suggest STOP running it with the current oil in it. Drain it out, change the oil filter and refill with REAL JASO MA2 oil.

Text Font Line Number
 

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Burgman oil kit ? whazzat?

hahaha holy cow. people make up anything and can sell it if you give it a drama title hype or a snazzy name. I mean look at crowdfunding. the amount of dummies for pay for things is unreal.
 

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Regarding comparing a burger clutch torque to a manual car, or truck- Apples to oranges.

Car and truck clutch’s spin at crank speed- on the primary input side of the transmission reduction. Maximum torque on the clutch is at maximum torque rpm of the engine at WOT, irregardless of vehicle speed or gear it’s in at the time.

The burger clutch is on the CVT secondary. Torque on this clutch is where the engine Rpm torque curve crosses the CVT ratio .The maximum would be- In manual mode, this would be in “1st gear” with the engine at speed of max torque- 5k rpm’s. Probably somewhere around 20 mph.
 

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Very interesting. If that's true, and I have no reason to doubt it, and his doesn't not slip hard accelerating from a stop, then it's probably not the clutch.
 

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Nice brisk 28f ride to work today. On the way home at 43f, I figured I’d check my 5k rpm in 1st manual guess of speed. I was surprised, my speedo pretty much indicates 20mph at 5k. Played around and Tried a couple dead stop WOT runs. 43f cold air definitely gives the efi engine some more hp, but for sure with my 2013, the bike is significantly quicker in manual mode, vs automatic, power enabled mode. I was over 60mph pretty fast. Pretty much can’t shift soon enough to 2nd “gear”. Can’t speak for the previous generation on manual mode programming though.

Anyways, back to my point related to this thread. In the highest torque ratio of 1st, at WOT on flat ground, the engine spends so little time at it’s maximum torque rpm of around 5k , before it shoots up to 6, then 7k rpm’s , all happening well under 1 second, at 6 and then 7k, this engine has a decreasing torque output. This makes it harder for the rider to perceive a clutch slipping at that maximum torque rpm, because it is only there for a fraction of a second. If you repeated this test up a very, very, steep hill, the slipping would be very obvious. Suzuki specifies the steepest hill.... locked brakes, for the clutch slip test.
Anyway, This is the simplified, resulting explanation. There’s physics explanations behind all this, but I think I would bore most.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
After owning 6 Burgman 650 in 16 years, this is a first for me. (2004, 2007, 2012, 2007, 2014, 2018)
I bought an 2018 thinking it may be my last, and now after 7,100 miles, it has developed a slippage when accelerating at normal speeds. No slippage off the line but when driving 35-40 mph or so, and accelerate, the engine revs but the wheel does not get any power until a few seconds later. Our local Suzuki shop (small town in rural Arizona) does not have many Burgmans to work on and I would like to know what to ask for so I do not end up paying for everything they can imagine to check out. Many thanks! Chuck Walker
This is all great info. I didn't know. I have called my oil change mechanic to ask about the issue. many thanks!
 

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Yeh, maybe there was a mislabeled can of oil, or,somebody who doesn't work there anymore did the oil change, but there's no way the fat man ate the cookie.

Did you do the clutch slip test?
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Yeh, maybe there was a mislabeled can of oil, or,somebody who doesn't work there anymore did the oil change, but there's no way the fat man ate the cookie.

Did you do the clutch slip test?
Yeh, maybe there was a mislabeled can of oil, or,somebody who doesn't work there anymore did the oil change, but there's no way the fat man ate the cookie.

Did you do the clutch slip test?
I did and am not having problems now. I did direct shift too and it works fine. It may have been because of heating. When it happened I had ridden abut an hour.
 

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It was about 3 hours following Le dude steps, not counting time to make special tools he describes. I replaced the metal discs, but could have done just the fiber ones.
 
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