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Discussion Starter #1
Prior to purchasing my 2007 400, I discovered cyclebuy.com as a resource to get the dealer invoice cost for the bike. About to go buy a 2013 650 and wanted to get the information again, but it doesn't look like the same site is up and offering the service. Have done a google search and still can't come up with any figures. Does anyone know if this info. is out there? Another source? I just want to have that intel before I go into the dealer....I know the MSRP and there are a few in my area so I know I can walk away from one and go to another to get it. Just was hoping to get the figures beforehand.

Thanks much.
 

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This doesn't really answer your question but still valuable info on a new purchase.
This article as written by an ex MC sales man. I have a 2014 650 on order and I'll be using this as a guide as much as possible:

How to negotiate the best deal on any bike from a Motorcycle Salesman

A few years ago i lost my job as a computer technician. I couldnt pay my bills and had to move in with my cousin who has been a member of your forum for quite some time now. I had been riding bikes since i was 14 but it was just a hobby. I met my current boss (our sales manager) at bike night and he told me to come work for him. I have been doing this since 2005 now and i figured you guys should know some ins and outs of this business to keep yourself from getting ****** when you buy a bike.

1. This one should be a no brainer but some folks are still dumb enough not to get it. ALWAYS TALK ABOUT THE OUT THE DOOR PRICE. If there are any dealer fees, Freight or Prep fees you can ALWAYS get out of them (dont let them convince you otherwise). Never talk about what kind of a monthly payment you want or anything along those lines. Quite frankly do your homework before you walk in and ASK for what YOU want. Dont let them talk you into any bike. They will bash one product in favor of another if that puts more money in their pockets. This month there was a 250 dollar bonus on ZX14s and i think i sold 3 to complete newbies who had recently done the MSF because i was hurting for money. This business like any other is about making money not about moral standards or safety of bikers.

2. Dealers will avoid giving you out the door prices unless they know you are buying on the SAME DAY. So always give them the impression that you are taking the bike home today even though you arent going to do so.

3. You are NOT legally binded EVEN IF YOU HAVE SIGNED THE PAPERWORK to take the bike as long as you have not taken delivery. If you feel you are getting ****** WALK AWAY. Even if you have already signed the paperwork.

4. Just like the price of the bike the interest rate is ALWAYS negotiable and they will try to get you for as much as they can. Ask for a reasonably low APR and stick to it. The finance manager gets a cut if he talks you into a high interest rate. Dont be a victim. Same with the extended warranty and lojack. Dont let them talk you into it and if you are interested MAKE SURE YOU NEGOTIATE THE PRICES of the lojack, Gap insurance and extended warranty as well.

5. If you want the best possible deal ALWAYS take one dealer's OTD price and throw it at another. They will tell you that you can buy from them at a lower number and then take that number and throw it at another dealer. Keep doing this until the price reaches a point where it cant go any lower. This will ensure you got the best possible price.

6. Whenever you go into a dealership they will try to get your name and number. Never ever give out your real information unless you want them to call and harass you on a daily basis. Yes they wont give you prices unless they know your info but if you must give them any information make sure its completely fake and not your real stuff. If you do decide to buy later you can tell them you didnt want to give out information about you initially because most "Smart" customers do just that.

Another thing. Dont get baited by the dealership when they say "Where do i have to be in order for you to buy the bike today?" The only reason they are saying that is to keep you from shopping their OTD price around with other dealers. We say things like "This price is only good for today" or "Rebates end in 2 days" to force you into buying. Dont believe it. Take your time and you WILL save the most money that way.

Dont forget the FREIGHT which is probably about $639 and $399 for a dealer fee. You CAN get out of ALL of those fees if you negotiate. Unfortunately too many people are too lazy or dumb to do that. Actually in this business you rip people off MORE than in the car business because its very hard to find the actual COST of a bike, Atv, Personal watercraft or Sportboat that the dealer paid. For a car you can easily look up online how much the dealer paid for it and take it from there.

Although i can honestly say if you guys stopped letting the sales manager rush you and a little less lazy you can easily save a few grand which you can spend on mods on that bike later on. Just remember to tell them you are buying today even if you are just looking and once you have the OTD price quickly walk out. Why? Because otherwise they WILL NOT tell you the OTD price and tell you they will "Hook You Up" when you are ready to buy. If you want to follow our Nazi friend's advice and get banged up the ass then thats your decision to make.

I personally dont care if anyone wants to spend more money and buy it at their favorite dealership (even if that means spending a few grand more).

This thread is for those of you who want the best possible price for whatever it is you are looking for (Bike,ATV, Personal Watercraft etc). The same principles apply.

Now if you are PhilB and want to keep your local dealership happy so their sales manager can pull in over 150k a year by screwing you guys then please by all means pay them whatever they ask for .

Umm NO. I was looking at our book today and we are paying $9,100 for a 2009 R1 which we end up selling for around 14k or so when prep, freight and dealer fees are added in. Remember this is WITHOUT a rebate even just the MSRP on the R1 is @12,490. So even if you charged the customer simply MSRP the profit is over 3 grand.

As a general rule the price you pay OTD should be LESS than the MSRP of course there are those who get suckered into paying full MSRP, Freight, Prep and then Dealer Fees I love those customers. Thats always an easy 500 bucks or so in my pocket depending on the bike.

Possibly the most solid advice in this entire thread. As a customer WHAT DO YOU WANT? The lowest possible price (college students, people in debt who most likely shouldnt be buying a bike anyway, Divorced men going through a midlife crisis where the ex took away everything they had) or are you a person who has a significant amount of money they spend on hobbies and price is just a small consideration for them.

This thread is for those of you who fall in the first category. Where saving money and getting the best price is all you care about. If you are not one of those people then buy from your beloved dealerships even if they are charging you more. They need the business and you want a place where you can be friends with the management.
 

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Great advice. The out-the-door bit is most important (inc. sales tax, title, etcetera). I didn't care how they wrote up the dozen other fees as long as the out-the-door total was acceptable.

Nationwide I saw best advertised prices around $9,500 for 2013's so I used that as a basis for what was acceptable to me. I live in an expensive region (So Cal) and I didn't want to grind a salesman for price or play dealers against each other. Add tax and something less than $1K in fees and you can easily get out-the-door in the low to mid $11's. I contacted my closest six or seven dealers. Two had 2013's. Neither would negotiate an out-the-door over the internet but one eventually did (Malcolm Smith Motorsports), after I stayed firm that I was not going to drive 45 miles just to get a complete price quote but that I was a serious buyer.

I also knew what price Oneida Suzuki was selling extended warranties for and, after rejecting the dealership's nearly 2x price (!) I pointed them to Oneida's site and they matched the price ($380-ish for +36 months). They claimed that left just $15 margin for them. I don't know if I believe them and it didn't matter.

Aside from all that usual nonsense, they were honest and straightforward to deal with. I asked if there was any advantage to financing anything through Suzuki and there was not any extra incentive (and their 'deal days' rate is terrible, 7.99%).

The dealer also knew their insurance broker was not competitive versus a Geico quote I had (much better than Progressive and two others). That was odd because in the past I'd gotten good insurance prices through dealerships.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks Penforhire. I too prefer to go into one dealer (closest), plan to make the purchase if it’s accepted. If not, I can then go to dealer #2, #3, etc, to see if they will accept it. I took that approach back in late ’06 the last time I made a purchase and I was able to get my bike from my first dealer visit. (I'm located in No. Calif.)
I too saw one advertised for $9500 but this is still a discounted retail sale price. They may also being using this as an attention grabber to get folks in the door with the idea they can make money elsewhere, and as such, may not be too motivated to sell for a lower amount closer to their actual cost.
As a point of reference, when I bought my ’07 400 (in December ’06), I went in with the mindset of paying the dealer invoice price of $5,072 that I obtained from Cyclebuy. I knew the tax and DMV title/registration would be a fixed cost. The tax I could figure out; the DMV fee I didn’t know. The doc fee turned out to be $45 which also I didn’t know. As such, I didn’t ask, know or give an OTD price. I ended up getting it for $5244, ($172 over invoice) with an OTD final price of $5827. The MSPR for this was $5900. As this was my very first bike purchase, I thought I came away with a good deal especially since I was buying the new ’07 in late ‘06.
Short of knowing the dealer invoice price, would a Plan B option be to use the MSRP as a guideline and come in with an OTD offer at or below that? I plan to pay cash/no financing. Thanks.
 

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You guys are way off here. The '13 650 has a manufacturer rebate program (or will have one soon). usually this is $800-$1000. Hence, your OTD prices should be at least $1,000 below MSRP if not $1500 below.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Yes, thanks Burgmanmaniac. My invoice price from '07 did include the dealer holdback, and assumed that there was some sort of end-of the-year dealer credits/bonus in play to help with their motivation to sell it to me for just over the invoice price. I am unaware of any such incentives in play for the '13 (holdback amount?? and/or rebates) so that would be valuable intel to have. Appreciate the details.
 

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When I bought my '12 Burgman 400 in October 2013 the dealer told me there was a Suzuki rebate program. My guess was $800.00 I told the dealer I would be back in a year for a 2013 Burgman 650. He said I should expect $800-$1,000 secret rebate from Suzuki to help dealers clear off the old inventory.

Right now I could buy a 2013 Burgman 650 for $10K OTD in my area. The weather here is great (over 70 degrees) and lots of people like Burgmans. So, my area may not be California but The Burgs are popular.
 

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6.5 percent sales tax in my county.
Oh don't start this thread.

I took a class for sales tax software once. There are over 7k sales tax jurisdictions in the USA. I don't think we want to hear from all of them.
 

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Oh don't start this thread.

I took a class for sales tax software once. There are over 7k sales tax jurisdictions in the USA. I don't think we want to hear from all of them.
Yes. I think the low is 3 percent and the high somewhere in California is close to 10 percent.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
You guys are way off here. The '13 650 has a manufacturer rebate program (or will have one soon). usually this is $800-$1000. Hence, your OTD prices should be at least $1,000 below MSRP if not $1500 below.
I was just trying to get a reference point since he stated an OTD price, and wanted to see how that might affect me here in Calif. where the tax is higher.

So with the MSRP of $11K (I think the '13 and '14 were the same), and the rebate program in play, would it be unreasonable to ask for an OTD price of $9500? Or is the $10K more realistic?
 

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One thing I like about Australia....all prices are OTD and quoted with sales tax in, which is 10% everywhere.

There is no sales tax on used bikes. Used bikes come with basic third party liability insurance for whatever period is left on the rego ( registration ).
Insurance and registration is abotu $230 a year regardless of the bike and you can cut that in two if you have the dealer set the bike up for single rider use.

I could never afford two machines in Ontario where there is 13% sales tax on used bikes AND separate insurance for each which would run about $650 for basic on the 2009 650 Exec and more than that on the ST1100 as it goes by CC.
Some SS bikes are just about uninsurable...there is a black list out each year.

So owning and rolling over bikes is easy here in Australia tho it's a buyers market just now with far more sellers than buyers.

They have a strong learners program like Europe and it's a stiff hurdle if you are going to ride something larger than 650 ( and there are HP restrictions as well around 50 hp ). BUt that means some of the sweet 400s from Japan arrive here like the CB400F.

You have to ride for a couple of years successfully then take a seperate test to move to the more powerful bikes.
Keeps insurance low and younger citizens alive.

Ontario on the other hand...you can have a licence for one day, take a written test and then go out and buy a Hyabusa and ride it as long as you are able to cough up the ( likely $11k ) insurance premium. Stupid set up.

In Australia the learner has to be accompanied by a mature licenced rider either in a vehicle following or on their own mcycle for the first 90 days.

Tougher to get the licence, much much cheaper for the learner rider as result.
Kid in Ontario even with a clean record and 5 years experience still pays $2500 a year for a SV650s for insurance
Kid in Australia would be $237 per annum or even less if set up for single seat.

Aussies have the right of it.
 
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