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Discussion Starter #1
I'm pretty sure that I have figured out that 6th "gear" and "Overdrive" are in fact the same thing.
My question is this; when in "D" mode, does the CVT EVER shift into 6th overdrive range by itself or is that only accomplished in the MANUAL mode?
I rarely go faster so I thought I'd pose the question here.
Seems like even at speeds of 80 mph indicated (72 actual), if I switch to Manual, the indicator always shows 5th.
Is this normal or do I have an issue?
Thanks
 

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I observe the same thing. When in D, no overdrive. When in manual, it will only go to 5th (if speed is high enough) and I need to upshift to go into 6th. I do believe this to be normal.

Marco
 

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In "D" mode the tranny goes to whatever ratio The engine requires so yes, mine going down hill or with a tail wind will go to the ratio of "6". Depending on whether 2 up or no, tail wind or no, up or down hill, I find that somewhere around 60mph I can shift between "D" or "5" and engine RPM varies very little so I wait until 60+mph before going to manual and then upshifting to "6" and then only on major highways where I'll cruise at 65-74mph. If I wait until 70mph it will often cause the engine to rev at a higher rpm when switching between auto to manual mode. 68-69mph = 4000rpm in 6th and I don't see the variation in engine rpm going up or down hills.

The Rostra electronic cruise works in either auto or manual mode but is interesting to see the difference in engine rpm in auto mode. For example: in auto mode on the interstate doing 68-69mph it will vary from 4000rpm to over 5000rpm depending on the circumstance while in manual it stays right at 4000rpm constant .
 

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Remember this is a CVT (continuously variable transmission) so in Drive or Power mode be in any ratio between the lowest and the highest. In Manual mode there are 5 or 6 ('03-'04 are 5 and '05-up are 6) fixed ratios that are used. While it is possible to catch the CVT in the top ratio by going from Drive to Manual it is extremely hard (I've done in on two occasions). It's more likely when shifting from Drive to Manual at freeway speed under light load that it will go into the fixed 5th gear ratio and RPM's will rise slightly and putting it into Manual 6th the RPM's will drop below where it was in Drive. This tells you it's actually operating inbetween the Manual fixed 5th gear ratio and Manual fixed 6th gear ratio, hence variable. Nothing is wrong just because you can't catch it in Manual 6th when switching from Drive to Manual.

Overdrive in simple terms is the input (engine side) is spinning slower than the output. Lets take for example the AW-4 transmission used in a 91 Jeep Cherokee. This does not into account a torque convertor redustion of approx 1.90 to 1. The AW-4 can lock the torque converter in Second, Third, or Fourth gears.

First gear ratio is 2.80 to 1 so the input is turning 2.8 times the output and so on below.
Second gear ratio is 1.53 to 1
Third gear ratio is 1.00 to 1 a 1 to 1 ratio is also called Direct drive
Fourth gear ratio is 0.75 to 1 since the input is turning slower than the output this is also called Overdrive.
 

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For what it's worth, on a 1900 mile ride last year with me on my 2011 650 exec using 6th gear in manual mode wherever possible (at least 1000 of those miles) and with joe_90 on a 2003 650 non-exec with no 6th gear option, I seem to remember that there was no difference in fuel comsumption between the two scooters.
 

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Steve D UK said:
For what it's worth, on a 1900 mile ride last year with me on my 2011 650 exec using 6th gear in manual mode wherever possible (at least 1000 of those miles) and with joe_90 on a 2003 650 non-exec with no 6th gear option, I seem to remember that there was no difference in fuel comsumption between the two scooters.
Hmmm.. THat's depressing... when commuting daily on the interstate.. and I flip t Manual and into 6th gear.. I thought I heard my engine sipping fuel instead of guzzling it as I proceed to work with well over 80 MPH indicated all the way.. Nut's.. I thought 6th gear allowed me to reduce fuel consumption a lot more than it does.. :(

Last weekend I did a lot of interstate miles.. Most of it in 6th gear... of the 180 miles... 155 or so was on interstate at speeds in the range of 70 to 90 MPH.. My actual mileage when I filled up was 48.4 MPG... which was "OK" .. a little less than I was hoping for
 

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It takes x amount of horsepower to move the bike at a certain speed. If the engine is at it's most efficient rpm at that speed it will give the best mpg. move the rpm's up or down and mpg will go down. Decreasing engine speed does NOT always mean better fuel milage.

For example, this actual graph from a diesel engine shows that at 1200rpm and 2100rpm the fuel mileage would be less then at 1600 to 1800rpm as it takes more fuel per horsepower hour at 1200 and 2100rpm.

 

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Noth said:
Steve D UK said:
For what it's worth, on a 1900 mile ride last year with me on my 2011 650 exec using 6th gear in manual mode wherever possible (at least 1000 of those miles) and with joe_90 on a 2003 650 non-exec with no 6th gear option, I seem to remember that there was no difference in fuel comsumption between the two scooters.
Hmmm.. THat's depressing... when commuting daily on the interstate.. and I flip t Manual and into 6th gear.. I thought I heard my engine sipping fuel instead of guzzling it as I proceed to work with well over 80 MPH indicated all the way.. Nut's.. I thought 6th gear allowed me to reduce fuel consumption a lot more than it does.. :(

Last weekend I did a lot of interstate miles.. Most of it in 6th gear... of the 180 miles... 155 or so was on interstate at speeds in the range of 70 to 90 MPH.. My actual mileage when I filled up was 48.4 MPG... which was "OK" .. a little less than I was hoping for
I think 48.4mpg is good out of a US gallon. On that 1900 mile trip I averaged 39mpg. And that's Imperial gallons!
 

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[/quote] I think 48.4mpg is good out of a US gallon. On that 1900 mile trip I averaged 39mpg. And that's Imperial gallons![/quote]

I'm averaging 53.1 for the 2800+ miles I have put on my 09 in seven weeks. I use OD as much as I can. :wink:
That's also on regular gas 87 octane. :thumbup:
 

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Noth said:
Steve D UK said:
For what it's worth, on a 1900 mile ride last year with me on my 2011 650 exec using 6th gear in manual mode wherever possible (at least 1000 of those miles) and with joe_90 on a 2003 650 non-exec with no 6th gear option, I seem to remember that there was no difference in fuel comsumption between the two scooters.
Hmmm.. THat's depressing... when commuting daily on the interstate.. and I flip t Manual and into 6th gear.. I thought I heard my engine sipping fuel instead of guzzling it as I proceed to work with well over 80 MPH indicated all the way.. Nut's.. I thought 6th gear allowed me to reduce fuel consumption a lot more than it does.. :(

Last weekend I did a lot of interstate miles.. Most of it in 6th gear... of the 180 miles... 155 or so was on interstate at speeds in the range of 70 to 90 MPH.. My actual mileage when I filled up was 48.4 MPG... which was "OK" .. a little less than I was hoping for
At those speeds, there is no difference in manual or drive rpms.
 

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Steve D UK said:
On that 1900 mile trip I averaged 39mpg. And that's Imperial gallons!
What kinda sludge are they selling you as petrol over there?
 

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MJR said:
Steve D UK said:
On that 1900 mile trip I averaged 39mpg. And that's Imperial gallons!
What kinda sludge are they selling you as petrol over there?
Well, I don't think it was the fuel quality that resulted in those mpg figures. I was riding a fully loaded Burgman with a seat bag and a top box, large Givi screen and leg wind deflectors. On the European motorways I was going at true speeds close to or just over 100 mph for most of the time with a fat rider on it (me) so perhaps that might have had a little to do with it. :lol:

I am constantly amazed at the mp(US)g figures you achieve on your Burgies over there. :thumbup:
 

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Maybe their miles have shrunk? It would also explain their considerably better tire mileage.

The official ratio is 63360 inches of 25.4 mm per mile

http://www.math.ucr.edu/home/baez/inches.html

Summarizing, it seems that the number 63360 comes from these facts:

There are 12 inches per foot,
33/2 feet per rod,
4 rods per chain,
and 80 chains per mile.

Multiplying these numbers we get 12 × 33/2 × 4 × 80 = 63360.
 

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Steve D UK said:
On the European motorways I was going at true speeds close to or just over 100 mph for most of the time with a fat rider on it (me) so perhaps that might have had a little to do with it. :lol:
Where was that? Certainly not in the UK and I don't remember any places in France, Switzerland, or Austria that I've ever gone that fast. Germany comes to mind though and I've never been to the other countries though.
 

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I've been experimenting with this overdrive 6th since I brought the new 650 home about 2500 miles ago. I'm averaging about 52 MPG. I've found that watching the tach a well as speed gives me the best result. I try my best to keep it at or below 4000 RPM, using smooth starts and acceleration. At 4000 RPM and below I leave it alone and in automatic. For me here in Flatistan (Floriduh) that's good for mid 60's speed on the speedometer. Above 4000, droning along the countryside, I put it into 6th and it usually drops 250-500 RPM. I always put it back into auto at 55MPH or below. So all my driving at 55 or below is in automatic, and about 65 and above is manual 6th. Works great for me. :thumbup:
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Out here in SoCal, riding at "mid 60's" speed will guarantee someone will be crawling up your butt in about 10 seconds. :(
To be safe, you need to ride about 3-5 mph FASTER than the flow of traffic, which keeps you mostly in control of the situation.
This is according to a number of CHP motor officers I have talked to at my local BMW dealer.
Riding slower than traffic is potentially deadly.

My normal RPM is usually around 4500 and my average gas mileage since I got the bike about 900 miles ago has been 50-54mpg measured at the pump. The onboard mpg computer is pretty close but reads higher. I guess that's to be expected with a 10% speedo error.
Unless I'm on a nice open hiway away from the maddening rush of traffic, I leave it in D. I have tried the manual 6th and it does work fine too.
 

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Back in 1989 I went from Stuttgart to Bremerhaven two up only stopping for gas doing about 125 MPH. My Gs750 had a 5.25 gallon tank and I got 32 MPG. Dropped off my friend so he could pick up his American car at the military port. I went for a ride, lunch and then home, still beat him back.
 

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You can't repeat that today Dave, because the Autobahn is immensely crowded by trucks that mostly drive 55MPH.
On trople lane sections where they are allowed to pass, you see passes that take a mile or more, as trucks going 57MPH pass those that go 55MPH.

Often the passing truck is not really faster than the passed truck, so they move along side by side, and the passed trucker couldn't dream of slowing down as much as 1 MPH. The Germans call this Elephantenrennen Elephant race.

Stil the a$$holes going 180kph+ expect the majority going 130 kph to throw their cars in behind the trucks so the racers can get by.

If you are weak enough to obey, expect to be locked behind the trucks for many miles, as all the cars doing your previous speed pass by in an endless file.
 
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