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Another option is, of course, to take the cover off and spread the load with small spreader bars then put the cover on and buttoned up slightly before attempting to loosen the nut.
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That got me thinking...in looking at your first picture, what if you just took a flat metal bar and drilled four holes to match the two holes you have the bolts in and the two holes that hold the filter (on the outside of the case)? That would significantly spread out the force across the case. I think for it to work, the length of the two bolts that fit into the fins would have to be sized just right where they could be tightened down onto the bar. If the holes are not in the same plane, you could shim the bar by gluing on washers, or maybe it wouldn't matter.

Maybe...?
 

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Agreed, i do have two-piece metal tool also, but that wood work fits better. Not for traveling though.
 

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Discussion Starter #23

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I use this $10 clutch tool https://amzn.to/2HoezcY all the time on my burgman and other burgmans... I think it is stupid to waste your time build one... I did build one long time ago but this tool is useful for variator and clutch bell
 

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I use this $10 clutch tool https://amzn.to/2HoezcY all the time on my burgman and other burgmans... I think it is stupid to waste your time build one... I did build one long time ago but this tool is useful for variator and clutch bell
Well, color me stupid. Ha. I have one similar that I bought and used on the SYM, but the handle on mine was too short to reach the ground (maybe not so on that particular one) so I would have to try to brace it to bike parts which didn't always work too well. So I just made one to my specifications and don't regret spending the time.

BTW Mitch, I want to personally thank you for your excellent how-to videos. They have helped get me through many jobs with a minimum of cursing and wasted time. If there are any new 400 owners reading this who don't know, look up MicBergsma videos on YouTube. Well made, clear instructions and nicely edited.
 

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That might be a good one to travel with. Could use a short piece of pipe on the handle if it seems too short.
 

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Discussion Starter #27
I use this $10 clutch tool https://amzn.to/2HoezcY all the time on my burgman and other burgmans... I think it is stupid to waste your time build one... I did build one long time ago but this tool is useful for variator and clutch bell
Well, well, well... The trouble with the internet is that stuff never gets revised or disappears. In this case, I've watched most of your video's many times over and the last I was aware of was that you used the home made job your friend made for you. So it is news that you now just use something that is readily available on Amazon.

I'd also like to THANK YOU in a big way for the wonderful series of videos that have been one of my primary sources of information since owning a Burgman.

While I have your attention I'm still wondering about that warning that says not to turn the Variator backwards as it messes up the timing? Perhaps it's not what you actually meant...

Thanks for the link on Amazon to buy a simple tool it's appreciated and I generally take the view of never making something when you can just buy one as it is a tenth of the cost and a twentieth of the time. In my case in Australia the price is tripled when you take into account the shipping and exchange rate but that is fine still good value for money.

The other thing about this thread is that it's not actually about making a tool or using the one that derives from the expensive Suzuki one or indeed, the one illustrated in your videos. It's about the question of whether the inner case could be used to get the Variator undone on the side of the road (when one is not carrying the tool) and whether a disc lock could be used for the clutch (see two original photo's)? I'd love to know what you think about that? The main issue is whether the inner case would be strong enough to withstand the lateral forces. Don't suppose you've got a spare (broken) inner case that you could try this with?

Cheers JohnM
 

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John - what did you think about my idea of a short metal bar bridging the four bolt holes to add reenforcement?

I'm sure I've turned the variator backwards many times on various scooters and everything still seems to be fine.
There may be a reason it's not a good practice, but doesn't mean certain doom.
 

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I'm pretty sure a disc-lock or even a stick wedged into the wheel would work to hold it. I just wouldn't go crazy jamming on it since all the torque will be transmitted through the gears and final drive. If you're gentle I don't think it would be that much harder on those parts than spirited riding. But that's just an opinion. If you're stranded on the side of the road in the middle of nowhere (not extremely likely if you keep up with the maintenance), you would be more inclined to take risks that you would not take sitting in your garage.
 

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That's pretty much the same tool I got off eBay years ago.
I obviously don't use it on the 650 but both SYMs and a Kymco or two have seen it.

To get around the shortish handle I bought a section of black pipe that fits over the handle if I need it.
1/2" I think, but I honestly don't recall the diameter, I just took the tool in with me and nabbed the length I wanted in the diameter that fit.


I use this $10 clutch tool https://amzn.to/2HoezcY all the time on my burgman and other burgmans... I think it is stupid to waste your time build one... I did build one long time ago but this tool is useful for variator and clutch bell
Well, color me stupid. Ha. I have one similar that I bought and used on the SYM, but the handle on mine was too short to reach the ground (maybe not so on that particular one) so I would have to try to brace it to bike parts which didn't always work too well. So I just made one to my specifications and don't regret spending the time.

BTW Mitch, I want to personally thank you for your excellent how-to videos. They have helped get me through many jobs with a minimum of cursing and wasted time. If there are any new 400 owners reading this who don't know, look up MicBergsma videos on YouTube. Well made, clear instructions and nicely edited.
 

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Discussion Starter #31 (Edited)
John - what did you think about my idea of a short metal bar bridging the four bolt holes to add reenforcement?

I'm sure I've turned the variator backwards many times on various scooters and everything still seems to be fine.
There may be a reason it's not a good practice, but doesn't mean certain doom.
Hi Gary,
I thought the idea was a good one. Anything that could easily add strength to the locking mechanism would be valuable. I did think that arranging such a bar was slightly tricky as one would still have to avoid the centre section to allow the socket to pass through. Indeed, I've thought that it would be really easy to turn a huge annulus (washer) that fits around the whole lot. The only problem with that is that the fingers would necessarily have to just engage with the ends of the fins... this would not be good. I guess we are talking about the idea that two bolts stop the variator from turning and the rest of the mechanism tries to strengthen the inner casing.

I'm shipping my scooter next week otherwise I'd just buy a second hand inner casing and try the idea just so I could put the idea to bed. Clearly, if it worked then all of the discussion about special tools would be irrelevant.
Cheers JohnM
 

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I did think that arranging such a bar was slightly tricky as one would still have to avoid the centre section to allow the socket to pass through.
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D'oh! Brain fart. Was so focused on bracing it up, I forgot the reason for doing it in the first place, to get a socket in there. Yes, probably doable but not as simple as a single straight bar. Something that would actually work would probably involve a bit of welding.
 

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Discussion Starter #33
D'oh! Brain fart. Was so focused on bracing it up, I forgot the reason for doing it in the first place, to get a socket in there. Yes, probably doable but not as simple as a single straight bar. Something that would actually work would probably involve a bit of welding.
Ha! Glad to see that it's not only me that does that...
 

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Just a couple more comments and observations. You could make two short, flat bars to bolt down to the two holes on each side of the nut (both bolts would need to be tightened on the bar; you could still use those long bolts if you put an extra nut on it to tighten down). That would help distribute lateral forces better than nothing. Also, those fins are very close to the case, so most of the force transmitted to the case would be parallel to the case, which is better than if they were farther away and you would induce more rotational force. Think of drawing it as a fulcrum and lever... Not a physicist so probably not describing it very well.

Did you ever get that nut loosened?

Bottom line - you're just going to have to try it and end the suspense. :)
 

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That's pretty much the same tool I got off eBay years ago.
I obviously don't use it on the 650 but both SYMs and a Kymco or two have seen it.

To get around the shortish handle I bought a section of black pipe that fits over the handle if I need it.
1/2" I think, but I honestly don't recall the diameter, I just took the tool in with me and nabbed the length I wanted in the diameter that fit.
Using thin wall conduit [emt], flattened slightly makes a good handle extension to carry in your travel tool kit
You'd be surprised how much force a 6" crescent wrench or 1/4" drive ratchet will take
 

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Discussion Starter #36
Did you ever get that nut loosened?

Bottom line - you're just going to have to try it and end the suspense. :)
No I never did get it loosened. The reason being that the scoot goes into a container this week and I've run out of time for stuff which is in the "If it ain't broke don't fix it" category. Right back at the beginning I explained that I was shipping it for a trip around Europe and it needs to be ready now. It needs to be shipped rather than just buying a scoot in Europe primarily because it's modified to accomodate my partners artificial knee which, despite being artificial, has a lack of mobility. Also I prefer "the devil I know" in my rides. The other thing, of course, is that there will be two of us on this scoot with luggage for five months. That luggage is a pair of jocks and a toothbrush for me, and her clothes and PRODUCT. Apparently, product is a collection of makeup and hair care things that are just not available anywhere else in the world. As such, I'm taking a minimal tool kit (including a new belt) and not much else. Don't get me wrong about the lady in my life - I wouldn't have it any other way. Not too many men have a good-sport partner that's still prepared to travel on a scoot for five months when aged in their seventies. Thus the main thrust of my original suggestion is what could one use on the side of the road if one really needed to? In reality, if I really needed to change a belt I'll just take it to a Suzuki dealer. Like many other DIYers here I just balk at the idea of handing over lots of foreign currency just to change a belt. At home I've got lots of the gear in my workshop but it's not the same when on the side of the road. It's then that one finds oneself trying to be a little creative by using little tricks such as using a sheet of paper as a funnel or maybe a disc-lock to stop the clutch turning. Given the cost of shipping this scoot I doubt it'll ever find it's way back to Australia. The scoot is worth less than the shipping. So, if the worst comes to the worst, our dear old black 2009 AN400A might end up being an organ donor in some place far, far away... :cry::cry::cry: If that does happen the experiment will have been done and the results will be posted here...
 

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Discussion Starter #37 (Edited)
Using thin wall conduit [emt], flattened slightly makes a good handle extension to carry in your travel tool kit
You'd be surprised how much force a 6" crescent wrench or 1/4" drive ratchet will take
I agree it's really surprising. In fact, when I watch those guys cleaning windows on the outside of sky scrapers I often think how amazing it is that their whole lives depend on one or two welds. It's not quite the same but I think most of us underestimate the strength of metal especially when the forces are applied laterally.

In fact, have a look at the following photo's. They illustrate how I lift my Burgman onto the back of my Ute (Pickup Truck) when I'm taking it away with my caravan. Who would have thought that a single SS eyelet could lift a Burgman using only the 1.25 thread? The second photo shows a Dyneema Soft Shackle picking up the front. It's probably stronger than the SS but the eyelet is neater...



Eyelet.jpg Bdash.jpg
 

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I'm one of those who made a holding tool, out of plywood and 6 bolts, it works for variator and clutch. 6 bolts is good enough- for a half dozen uses so far.
In your case, I would use a holder tool to secure the variator. Then get your 24mm 6-sided socket and an impact gun (I use Harbor Freight 1/2 inch drive electric one) and MAKING SURE you are turning it CCW, hold the trigger until it comes off.... it might take a while.
I once rebuilt a Harley Shovelhead with really HUGE nuts for the chain drive, it took a while but they did come off.

No, don't turn the engine clockwise. Just don't do it. You will need the holder tool to secure the variator and clutch when you re-torque the nuts.
 
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Discussion Starter #39
No, don't turn the engine clockwise. Just don't do it. You will need the holder tool to secure the variator and clutch when you re-torque the nuts.
Why? I'm ok with not doing it but why?
 
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