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Discussion Starter #1
Well has anyone seen or heard anything about the 2005 400's? Were they not supposed to be out in October? I know the web site is not always accurate and all but I just got to wondering since it is now November 1.
 

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Discussion Starter #2
:D 70 views and no reply. I guess that means no one has heard or seen anything about the 05 400's that were supposed to be available in Oct. :wink:
 

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When I saw the message yeasterday, I tried calling my local dealer. The phone was busy. I just called them and was told delivery on all models is running behind. They hope to have them in before the end of November.
 

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I saw an article in USAToday last week. The Southern California ports are in trouble right now. The article said that there are about 85 ships backed up in the harbor waiting to unload. With their current equipment and insufficient staffing, it takes about 10 days to unload each ship. Merchants are starting to worry about getting their goods in time for the Christmas sales season.

Apparently a large influx of clothing items from China, and also outsourced production coming back to the USA, have overloaded these ports.

I don't know if there are scooters sitting on these ships - but if there are, it is apparently impossible to get a good estimate of when each ship will be unloaded.

Also in the new Scoot-Tours magazine, it says that Chinese scooter clones are starting to hit the USA. There is a Helix clone, along with that Velux. The company producing the Helix clone has stated that it will have a scooter in the 400cc to 650cc category available early next year, which makes me wonder... Burgman Clones??? The scooters are very inexpensive, build quality is mixed, and there are currently no maintenance manuals available. But the Helix clone (Sunflower brand) sells for $2395 as opposed to $5099 for the Honda product. The person reporting on this currently has one of the Helix clones. He got it for $1995, but apparently they recently went up $400.
http://sunflowerscooters.com/sunflowers_005.htm
 

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I've been thinking about this clone thing. How do the Chinese get away with selling a blatant copy of a Honda product? I know that a gray market has existed for years, particularly with cameras and watches. But isn't this a little different? Maybe Honda gave them a license to produce this thing, but I tend to doubt that.

At the least, it turns me off. The Japanese brought over a whole new category of motorcycles and cars when they began exporting to us. They didn't send us Chevy clones or Volkswagen clones or Harley clones. The Chinese seem to lack both imagination and ethics with this selling of clones.

Unfortunately, there is a market for fakery. Some people do buy fake Rolex watches - and there will be those who will buy these cheap scooters too. Not for me. I wear a cheap reliable watch - a Timex. It is what it is. Looks OK, keeps accurate time. When the battery wears out I'll toss it and buy a new Timex. But I don't want a disposable scooter. And I don't want a copy of an obsolete design and 1980's technology - even at less than half price. And if you look at the Sunflower website, one of their other scoots looks amazingly like a BV200. This is a tasteless endeavor, and I hope it does not succeed.
 

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Paul, on the other hand, it might let those who can't afford $5-7000 scoots the opportunity to feel the wind in thier faces and introduce them to the world of scootering. Ultimately, the Chinese quality will either meet our standards or they won't cut into the market of the better ones. I expect their products will be sold mostly to markets in under-dev countries.

Timex?.....man you buy top quality stuff; $20 is way too expensive . I go with the $6.95 watches...current one is over 3 years old with a nite lite!
 

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Actually, the Japanese did clone some American stuff when they first came into the US, at least in cars. In the old Toyota Land Cruisers, the parts are interchangable with the old Chevy inline sixes. No joke!!!

The Chinese are doing more of this becuase they have absolutely no copyright laws in their country. In China, you don't buy a Honda CR-V, you buy one of these instead....

Honda Takes Chinese Copycats To Court
 

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I personally honor big brands, but I have to admit that if some manufacturer can produce an equivalent vehicle for a cheaper price, i just might encourage the masses to purchase one and therefore put more two-wheeled vehicles on North American streets ... and to me that is a goal worth striving for. Less congestion, fewer fatalities, less fuel consumption and best of all ... more fun! I can only hope that more and more brands find a reason to do business here and more and more folks ride two-wheels.
 

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But........

If these Chinese factories are under no obligation to do their own designs
then who watches them to make sure that they originate quality?

P.S. texascycle, you've got the best avatar around.
 

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Thanks for the compliments on the avatar ... plenty of good minutes searching on Google's Pics ...

There is no doubt that we can find better quality in popular manufacturers, but that doesn't mean that the Chinese cannot build a decent run-about-scoot. Burgman owners and the like may not be interested in the Far East's version of a rear engine small displacement scoot, but from the price point it may in fact encourage many "would be" riders into actual riders just by the simple fact of ownership cost vs. practical transportation. I have met many people at gas stations and random parking lots that have expressed interest in scoots only because they see others riding them, but if they have to pay a price near a Kia for a vehicle without a roof and stereo, there has to be some other incentive. I believe that incentive is the remarkably low price the Chinese have to offer, while still maintaining ISO 9001 factory compliance which in real world terms means the greater chance that even the cheapest scoots will last well worth their value.
 

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Good points texascycle. I truly enjoy cheap, disposable, depreciating assets, which the Burgman happens to be for me but I understand is not for most at it's current price point. I like riding scooters that I can mechanically maintane but not care about scratches, dents, dirt, or anything else including someone stealing it. Have fun, no worries. That's the deal with me, and I agree with you that many others would buy and use scooters if the price for 250cc to 400cc units was such that people would not feel obligated to fuss over them.
 

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Chief_O. said:
Well has anyone seen or heard anything about the 2005 400's? Were they not supposed to be out in October? I know the web site is not always accurate and all but I just got to wondering since it is now November 1.
I will reply. I bought my 2005 An400 December 21, 2004 and after only a few days they had another 2005 400 on the floor in the same spot mine had been. So they are for sure out. I know I've read one or two others on this forum who have bought 2005 400's 8)
 
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