Suzuki Burgman USA Forum banner

1 - 20 of 97 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
724 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
For arguments sake assume the following:

Honda brings back the Silverwing for 2015 with the DCT from the CTX 700.
Honda retunes the 2012 Silverwing engine or uses the CTX 700 engine (if it fits).

The '15 Honda Silverwing would sell for $8999 and do 0-60 in sub 5 seconds. Top end could be 100-110 depending on the engine modifications. Honda has everything in place for this type of Maxi Scooter and it would be $2K less than the Burgman 650.

The Burgman pricing structure is inflated for what you get in today's market. The Burg should be $2K less than the BMW 650 and not $1K more. But, since there is little competition in the USA for large Maxi Scooters over 600 cc Suzuki can get away with it.

For $11K MSRP the Burgman should have heated seat, heated grips and a stereo system (those add-ons are under $500 for Suzuki) not to mention a GPS upgrade.

The way I see it the market is wide open for Honda to come back strong with the Silverwing. In fact, the CTX 1300 should really have been the Silverwing 680 or Silverwing 1200 as Honda had the potential to own the Maxi Scooter market.

For those who complain the resale value of the Burgman 650 is too low my come back to them is the Burg 650 is a $8K scooter selling for $11K. This doesn't mean I don't like the Burg 650 or think it isn't the best scooter in the USA (it is); but, rather the Burg is simply overpriced. This is why a 1-2 year old brand new Burg 650s sell for the $7500-$8200 range. That's what they are worth.

So, after 3 years and 10-15,000 miles the Burgman should depreciate like every other bike out there. That's why they sell for $4K-$5 in the used market.

This is my opinion on the matter and I don't mean to offend those who are loyal to the brand but the pricing of an 11 year old scooter design for more money than a BMW (whose cost is way overinflated) makes absolutely no sense unless you own the market (as Suzuki thinks it does).

Stay safe and enjoy the ride.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,876 Posts
If memory serves, the BMW Msrp is for the base model and wouldn't you know, the base model is not imported to the USA. So you must pay extra for the premium package which includes the heated grips and such, which puts it in the Burgman 650 11k range. So for the same price you can get a Burgman with the tricky tanny, proven reliability, etc, or the BMW with the heated package, higher maintenance costs due to the tanny belt replacement, and by some reports lesser reliability.

Both are out to get what they can, that's what companies are supposed to do for their shareholders. I agree, they're overpriced, both of them. But as long as people are willing to pay it, I don't think we'll see any pricing changes anytime soon.

So far as the Silverwing, I just don't see them doing any further development on it. It's old product. Hondas focus is on their 700s. Perhaps the Integra will be here soon and they'll phase out the Silverwing. I think the bigger engined Forza is evidence of this. Bigger than the Reflex, means they need to go a step bigger with the next level up. So a 700 for sure, again probably the NC or the Integra.

Interested to hear your thoughts.

Keep the shiny side up.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BurgyBill

·
Registered
Joined
·
66 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,834 Posts
Honda of America already announce that they not have any intention of bringing back the SilverWing in larger version !

Scooter market is very small in North America, OEM will concentrate on bike market they get penetration with model of bike that move off show room floor recurrently.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,876 Posts
Or Suzuki could just release the G-Strider and completely destroy the Silverwing in every way.

http://www.gizmag.com/go/2303/
Oooo, I hadn't seen that bike before, but its an 11 year old concept bike. What are the odds? Cool looking though.

But I can easily see Suzuki upping the scooter wars to a 1L class bike. Interesting times.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,396 Posts
Interesting times.
Times are interesting for sure, but Zuki's in crisis and judging by its new Vee "concept" - quite deeply so. Besides the new 650 is not very much a distinctive upgrade either.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
585 Posts
The Honda Silver Wing in it's current form is outdated and I doubt Honda is going to attempt to refit that motor with a DCT trans. It just isn't the way Honda does things. What surprised me is BMW's scooter design. Nothing new or cutting edge - just the BMW logo on a pretty plain jane design and built by Kymco. I've read reviews of it where it's compared to the 650 Burgman and to be honest the ones that pick the BMW over the Burgman probably are enamored with the BMW logo. I don't see anything that makes the BMW scooters as good as the Burgman much less better. You can't even shift gears - there is no sport mode - power mode etc. Twist and go and a BMW logo - its all they have.

As long as Suzuki keeps refining the E-CVT for longevity they will be the benchmark by which all other makes are judged IMO. While it is very complicated it works very well and gives the rider options that do not exist on any other scooter brand.

As for being overpriced thats true of most any new bike scooter truck or car. If you feel you're being hosed on new prices buy a gently used bike scooter truck or car.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,142 Posts
Honda doesn't do automatics.

The DCT is a horror - the ECVT on the Burgman is light years ahead.

the Honda 700 motor is a horror. Rev limited at 6500 rpm. Worst demo bike I've ever been on.

Now if they built a light full body scoot based on the CB500x engine...might be a good idea.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
66 Posts
The truth is that none of the Jap companies sell enough scooters in the USA to spend much $$$$ on development of new products. Suzuki has the best chance but has priced their products for profit as opposed to volume.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,834 Posts
Honda, Suzuki and Yamaha have different model that not available on other continent, ASIA is largest market of all for scooter market, certain model available there not meet regulation in North America, unless projected sale volume support additional modification and development cost to meet NA regulation no manufacturer spend a lot of money to do this, sale volume just not there.

It not so simple as say we import bike, must add certification cost, after that lot of expense in part inventory, product specialist, training technician etc. all that cost much money.

Largest market in world now is China, Suzuki spend few billion there and build 2 new plant there, so have everyone else.

NA market is drop in bucket for such manufacturer.

At present Burgman 650 remain bike and benchmark every one else must aspire to and strive to surpass.
.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BurgyBill

·
Registered
Joined
·
220 Posts
I'm like everyone else here, I think the SilverWing has run it's course here in the U.S. and we won't see it again in that configuration. Honda is selling what I would call there next generation maxi scooter in Europe (the Integra) and if it comes here or not, who knows. I would think it would, but I can tell you that the Honda NC700 DCT ABS is not selling here. I wanted to purchase one, but dealers still have their first shipped one on their floor for sale and not selling very fast if at all, that tells me something how the Integra might sell. Personally I think we have lost another Maxi Scooter to what I'm sure Honda as chocked up to low sales volume and dealers closing them out a huge discounted prices usually means, good by for that model. This could happen to our Burgmans to, do you really know what Suzuki Ltd. is thinking, something to think about.

John
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
585 Posts
US market is meaningless compared to Europe.
Very true. If gas prices here were the same in North America as in Europe the scooter market would come alive here. There are over 700 million in Europe vs just over 500 million in North America. Since our gas isn't taxed as heavily as in Europe scooters are more of a luxury than a need in North America. Which is why I have a Yamaha Majesty parked on the front deck (covered) and nobody other than lowballers making any offers on it. I've had it up for sale almost since I bought the 650. Gas prices will rise late in spring. If it goes over $4 quickly I expect to get some phone calls on it.

http://moseslake.craigslist.org/mcy/4338091847.html

Book is from $3200-3600 depending on which website I run it through. Best offer to date is $1700. I'll keep it and let my younger brokeass brother ride in for an occasional ride with me. And I'm very tempted to turn it into an Eco-Exo-R three wheeler. How hard could it be to tack that drive train onto a reverse three wheeler?
 
  • Like
Reactions: BurgyBill

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,834 Posts
If gas prices here were the same in North America as in Europe the scooter market would come alive here. If it goes over $4 quickly I expect to get some phone calls on it.

Province Québec gas price most expensive in Canada, gas carry many tax here, presently 87 octane sell for $1.35 CND or $5.20 U.S gallon.

Province of Ontario probably about 10¢ less per litre, western Canada less expensive than Ontario.

It less expensive than Europe however.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BurgyBill

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,936 Posts
Europeans don't ride scooters to save fuel expenses, but to save transport time, parking fees (or to get a parking space at all) and toll fees.
They're most popular where scooters have been used for daily transport ever since the first Vespa came out.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
11,296 Posts
Times are interesting for sure, but Zuki's in crisis and judging by its new Vee "concept" - quite deeply so. Besides the new 650 is not very much a distinctive upgrade either.
If you are talking appearance you may have a small but arguable point - many would disagree with you however.

But by all other measures it is a significant improvement that addresses some acknowledged weakness.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
724 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
If you are talking appearance you may have a small but arguable point - many would disagree with you however.

But by all other measures it is a significant improvement that addresses some acknowledged weakness.
The Vstrom 650 is an awesome bike and probably best in class. The '14 Vstrom 1000 is a great ON ROAD machine with mild off road manners.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,834 Posts
Times are interesting for sure, but Zuki's in crisis and judging by its new Vee "concept" - quite deeply so. Besides the new 650 is not very much a distinctive upgrade either.

Many people think that Suzuki will offer large bore Burgie, but only market that want this is USA, with world economy suffering almost everywhere and fuel price around world go higher me think that Suzuki did beautiful job and lot of work with all improvement perform on 10 year evolution of 2013 model and to keep this line alive and successful. Have you notice how all scooter look similar now, Kymco, BMW, Burgie and many other, they almost all look same now, all competitor have had 10 year to become Burgie wannabe. Suzuki must do something right.

Why spend many million dollar to engineer and design bike that most of world not need or want presently, major market request lighter weigh and more economical bike not the contrary.

USA market is drop in bucket for bike and scooter sale and number.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BurgyBill
1 - 20 of 97 Posts
Top